Stability control is not fully defeatable?

[phastafrican]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Does disabling ABS affect brake bias ?

Most modern cars, including ours, have the brake proportioning managed through ABS. So disabling ABS reverts to manual proportioning, where it's up to the driver to manage the amount of pressure being applied since 50% of the braking is available to both the front and rear.

How it affects bias? I can't really say. You would need to take into account the braking system itself (pistons, pads, rotors, etc.). There is a natural brake balance associated with the size of the pistons in most cars that still gives ~70/30 brake bias without ABS. I run Hawk DT70 all around with stock brakes (Hawk's most powerful ceramic pads), and I had no problem with brake bias. Locked up once dive-bombing another car... but that's the expected result of too much pressure deeper into the brake zone. I am used to braking without ABS, I would caution a first timer to get some practice before stomping on the binders without ABS in the street (only for race cars)

Hope that's useful information... just sharing what I know.

[glamcem]

I am not sure if it's in my mind but I think my lap times were a bit better at the event when I had no ABS,EBD or other nannies.. I damaged my ABS sensor a few days before that track day so I wasn't able to receive and install the ABS sensor.. I said to myself "screw it I had cars with no ABS before it should be OK" and it was ..well, until I locked my tires and spun out .. my lap times were around 1:58s all day and after I fixed the ABS sensor with no TC/VSD partially off (hold down on TC button for 5 secs) it was around 1:59-2:00s.. maybe it's because it was a bit hotter on the second time (after it was fixed) or I started stabbing the brakes instead of modulating them.. it was a bit hard for me to adopt the threshold braking since I didn't have a non-ABS car for more than 10 years and my BRZ was relatively new to me that day..with the new FI, coilovers, new race pads (no bedding applied before the track day) and bunch of other mods.. after I change my pads and rotors (sometimes next week) I will complete the bedding procedure before going to track this time (lol) and try to pull the ABS fuse to see how it will feel this time.

[philooo]

main problem disabling the ABS is the risk to destroy a full set of 4 tires in just 2 seconds.
If you wheels lock at high speed you will flat spot your tires in a second.

For me the ABS really something that saves my tires when I get too zealous with the late braking.

[phastafrican]

Originally Posted by philooo

main problem disabling the ABS is the risk to destroy a full set of 4 tires in just 2 seconds.
If you wheels lock at high speed you will flat spot your tires in a second.

For me the ABS really something that saves my tires when I get too zealous with the late braking.

Unless you're running slicks, not DOT R compounds, a minor lockup doesn't ruin your tires entirely. My Hoosier R6s, come right back around to normal after 2 laps following a 50m lockup. There's just a minor vibration to deal with for those few laps. Plus, you'll release the brake immediately when you lock up if you actually plan to make the corner.
Racing without ABS is really not that big a deal except in the rain. You just need to get out there and learn your car.

[juliog]

Cracked a wheel in the canyons last night when I stabbed my brake pedal and car went into ICE mode. I was braking in a straight line. Car started sliding, I'm not sure I felt ABS pulsing but stopping power was greatly reduced, as if I wasn't on the brakes.

I guess stabbing on the brake pedal triggered it. I normally easy in my braking, but was wearing flip flops (I know ) and failed at initial modulation.

Also TC was off, but no pedal dance. AFAIK pedal dance doesn't prevent ICE mode, so it might be time to pull the ABS fuse

OFF should be OFF... #FML

[stevesnj]

Get this http://www.beastronix.com/shop/86nanny-pedal-dance-abs/

It works, i have one and have had a blast doing donuts at will!

[stugray]

Originally Posted by juliog

Cracked a wheel in the canyons last night when I stabbed my brake pedal and car went into ICE mode. I was braking in a straight line. Car started sliding, I'm not sure I felt ABS pulsing but stopping power was greatly reduced, as if I wasn't on the brakes.

I guess stabbing on the brake pedal triggered it. I normally easy in my braking, but was wearing flip flops (I know ) and failed at initial modulation.

Also TC was off, but no pedal dance. AFAIK pedal dance doesn't prevent ICE mode, so it might be time to pull the ABS fuse

OFF should be OFF... #FML

I recall recently someone telling me I was flat out lying when I said the same thing happened to me. TC was off from the 3 sec press and it came back on by itself.
Were the dash lights back off (TC) enabled after the slide?

[juliog]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Get this http://www.beastronix.com/shop/86nanny-pedal-dance-abs/

It works, i have one and have had a blast doing donuts at will!

Will have to try it out

Originally Posted by stugray

I recall recently someone telling me I was flat out lying when I said the same thing happened to me. TC was off from the 3 sec press and it came back on by itself.
Were the dash lights back off (TC) enabled after the slide?

I'm not sure if the TC light came back on, as I turned off car immediately once it stopped and I had an airbag in my face lol.

[Beastronix]

Originally Posted by juliog

Cracked a wheel in the canyons last night when I stabbed my brake pedal and car went into ICE mode. I was braking in a straight line. Car started sliding, I'm not sure I felt ABS pulsing but stopping power was greatly reduced, as if I wasn't on the brakes.

I guess stabbing on the brake pedal triggered it. I normally easy in my braking, but was wearing flip flops (I know ) and failed at initial modulation.

Also TC was off, but no pedal dance. AFAIK pedal dance doesn't prevent ICE mode, so it might be time to pull the ABS fuse

OFF should be OFF... #FML

@juliog Sounds like you have already mostly figured it out Yes, ICE mode is in relation to ABS. You can call it a side effect of ABS if you will. Drivers with fast feet (typically left foot brake drivers) often work to a point where the ABS can't keep up and causes a huge loss in braking power AKA ice mode. It is terrifying...

Disabling ABS will be the solution. I have a blog post on ice mode, but not sure I can post it myself without getting in trouble (not a paid sponsor).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by stugray

I recall recently someone telling me I was flat out lying when I said the same thing happened to me. TC was off from the 3 sec press and it came back on by itself.
Were the dash lights back off (TC) enabled after the slide?

CEL re-enabled TC on me for a few brief seconds (coil pack fault, saw it happen on the ~5s press and in sport mode) and then disable itself as I kept going, was pretty weird...

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

CEL re-enabled TC on me for a few brief seconds (coil pack fault, saw it happen on the ~5s press and in sport mode) and then disable itself as I kept going, was pretty weird...

This is a relatively unknown issue that I experienced as well while trying to drive through a failing coil pack during a track weekend. I was okay with the motor running a little rough at high rpm but wasn't ready for the rear brakes to apply themselves in a 90 mph turn.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

This is a relatively unknown issue that I experienced as well while trying to drive through a failing coil pack during a track weekend. I was okay with the motor running a little rough at high rpm but wasn't ready for the rear brakes to apply themselves in a 90 mph turn.

Ouch, I was lucky it seemed to resolve itself on the straights on third gear pulls and disappear before I went to fourth, just seemed to happen under prolonged hard accel in third.