follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Xero Limit
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-09-2019, 09:52 PM   #183
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 13' BRZ
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,652
Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,342 Times in 759 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joveen View Post
I was hoping that racerx did those dunks and could provide it lol.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
That wouldn't serve them a lot of benefit now would it. For all we know their manifold may not play nice with an off the shelf tune and show less, if any gains then a proper tune. If you really want to see what a part is doing we need to see dyno with proper tune before, and dyno with proper tune after.

Buying a thousand dollar intake manifold without having the tune logged and checked out at the minimum, would be like buying an Ace header and loading an OTS tune.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
Calum (11-10-2019)
Old 11-09-2019, 09:58 PM   #184
Lantanafrs2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2013 frs red
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,312
Thanks: 532
Thanked 750 Times in 462 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
That wouldn't serve them a lot of benefit now would it. For all we know their manifold may not play nice with an off the shelf tune and show less, if any gains then a proper tune. If you really want to see what a part is doing we need to see dyno with proper tune before, and dyno with proper tune after.

Buying a thousand dollar intake manifold without having the tune logged and checked out at the minimum, would be like buying an Ace header and loading an OTS tune.
I think their intent was to make it work with a popular ots tune. Either way there's not much to be gained on the top of the motor other than forced induction
Lantanafrs2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 10:10 PM   #185
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 13' BRZ
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,652
Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,342 Times in 759 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 View Post
I think their intent was to make it work with a popular ots tune. Either way there's not much to be gained on the top of the motor other than forced induction
Yeah I agree, I don't think the intake manifold is a bottleneck, especially NA. If it was enough of a bottleneck NA, then most people would be running an aftermarket intake manifold boosted, which they don't.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 10:32 PM   #186
PulsarBeeerz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 142
Thanks: 101
Thanked 78 Times in 55 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Yeah I agree, I don't think the intake manifold is a bottleneck, especially NA. If it was enough of a bottleneck NA, then most people would be running an aftermarket intake manifold boosted, which they don't.

Why would anyone bother with aftermarket IM when boosted with an engine that is already iffy at 300-350whp?? They are internally limited so early that they have a lot of other things to worry about at that point versus another 15hp. lol

I suspect the majority of folks that insist that the IM isn't a bottle neck when NA have zero experience with a setup other than stock.
PulsarBeeerz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 10:36 PM   #187
Joveen
Senior Member
 
Joveen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Drives: Bone stock
Location: Windsor, CT
Posts: 283
Thanks: 245
Thanked 55 Times in 40 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
What's the highest HP NA? 205? If someone can break that barrier it would be nice.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Joveen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 10:37 PM   #188
Lantanafrs2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2013 frs red
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,312
Thanks: 532
Thanked 750 Times in 462 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joveen View Post
What's the highest HP NA? 205? If someone can break that barrier it would be nice.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
206?
Lantanafrs2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 10:45 PM   #189
PulsarBeeerz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 142
Thanks: 101
Thanked 78 Times in 55 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joveen View Post
What's the highest HP NA? 205? If someone can break that barrier it would be nice.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Anywhere from 215-228whp. Though these numbers come from shops that always seem to make magical numbers. Basic setups that somehow make 10-20hp more on their dynos..



Realistically 208-210whp seems to be the barrier.
PulsarBeeerz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 11:33 PM   #190
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 13' BRZ
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,652
Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,342 Times in 759 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz View Post
Why would anyone bother with aftermarket IM when boosted with an engine that is already iffy at 300-350whp?? They are internally limited so early that they have a lot of other things to worry about at that point versus another 15hp. lol

I suspect the majority of folks that insist that the IM isn't a bottle neck when NA have zero experience with a setup other than stock.
Built motor cars are making more than that, still on the stock plastic manifold. What's their excuse

I'd like to try this manifold, I just don't see the point unless I really feel like burning some money. Maybe next year. I have a few other things I will likely buy first.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 11:37 PM   #191
Breadman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Drives: 2017 BRZ w/PP
Location: Pa
Posts: 455
Thanks: 23
Thanked 117 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Built motor cars are making more than that, still on the stock plastic manifold. What's their excuse

I'd like to try this manifold, I just don't see the point unless I really feel like burning some money. Maybe next year. I have a few other things I will likely buy first.

wait built fa20s are making 300+ wheel or are you talking about ls swaps
Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 11:43 PM   #192
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 13' BRZ
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,652
Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,342 Times in 759 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breadman View Post
wait built fa20s are making 300+ wheel or are you talking about ls swaps
Element Tunings car was making 400+ when it was FA powered. I mean it did eventually blow because FA20.

There are others out there.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129321

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88788

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59784
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
Breadman (11-10-2019)
Old 11-10-2019, 12:06 AM   #193
PulsarBeeerz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 142
Thanks: 101
Thanked 78 Times in 55 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Built motor cars are making more than that, still on the stock plastic manifold. What's their excuse

I'd like to try this manifold, I just don't see the point unless I really feel like burning some money. Maybe next year. I have a few other things I will likely buy first.

They can turn up the boost for free.lol. Plus a bigger turbo is not much more than a Full Blown IM which is really their only option other than ITBs.


Anyway I got bored with sitting on the net and did some real world trial and error myself. MY17 IM, extrude honed, with a 72mm TB. Better in every way over stock. I made sure to data log before and after so as not to rely on the butt dyno.



PulsarBeeerz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 12:39 AM   #194
Breadman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Drives: 2017 BRZ w/PP
Location: Pa
Posts: 455
Thanks: 23
Thanked 117 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Element Tunings car was making 400+ when it was FA powered. I mean it did eventually blow because FA20.

There are others out there.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129321

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88788

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59784

all those you linked are boosted, but i looked them up. brb exploding my engine so i can buy a 7300$ build engine and shift at 9k rpm
Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 12:54 AM   #195
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 13' BRZ
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,652
Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,342 Times in 759 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breadman View Post
all those you linked are boosted, but i looked them up. brb exploding my engine so i can buy a 7300$ build engine and shift at 9k rpm
You would have to go back and read the last few posts between us and it will make more sense.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 01:34 PM   #196
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 13' BRZ
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,652
Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,342 Times in 759 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz View Post
They can turn up the boost for free.lol. Plus a bigger turbo is not much more than a Full Blown IM which is really their only option other than ITBs.


Anyway I got bored with sitting on the net and did some real world trial and error myself. MY17 IM, extrude honed, with a 72mm TB. Better in every way over stock. I made sure to data log before and after so as not to rely on the butt dyno.
If just turning up the boost was a solution then why do people go to bigger turbos and make more power on the same boost Surely it is not because they are efficiently moving more air

Big valve head from Element on boost makes a claimed +60whp. When forum member 86IT asked them about it NA, they told him don't bother, not worth it.

If you have data, then why not post it?

And why have none of the beta test dyno's for this manifold seen the light of day? It has only been since what, May, that they sent out emails about having people test the manifold.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
Calum (11-10-2019)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Racer X Fabrication air intake design and development! Jeff@Racer X Fab Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 45 08-01-2019 12:29 PM
FRS / BRZ Intake Manifold - Development Thread - FT-86SpeedFactory by Velox FT-86 SpeedFactory Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 733 12-11-2018 11:13 PM
2013 intake manifold vs 2017 Aluminium intake manifold Bobster Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 29 12-19-2016 11:40 AM
Project BRZ Intake Manifold Development TurboBRZ Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 27 08-05-2015 07:44 PM
Racer X Fabrication oil pan design and development! Jeff@Racer X Fab Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 87 06-03-2015 11:10 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.