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Old 10-03-2019, 03:39 PM   #673
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Well, the convertible to me looks better than the coupe, but... I just can't love it. I've tried. The whole thing looks cheap and cartoonish, front to rear. Nothing graceful about it. Shame.
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Old 10-03-2019, 04:21 PM   #674
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Wait, MORE commonly?

A "normal" manual is just slow. Painfully slow.

Nannies are a totally different thing...
I used “commonly” inappropriately because of a mental error. I know, it made it confusing. I was speaking about drivers in general, but then I was thinking about racers like guys at the track wanting to win regardless of how and people who want to just enjoy racing and besting themselves; if they happen to win then cool. I hope that clarifies those sentences because I think we could agree that most people who race are out to win—they are racing others more than racing themselves.

Autos are faster, but a manual is still less than a half second. I wouldn’t really call it painfully slow unless you need help with your technique.

True, nannies are a different thing, but the sentiment is the same, which is what I was trying to communicate with the quote instead of just describing my opinion. That doesn’t mean the sentiment is universal, which is why I said it can apply. The point was your sentiment about not wanting nannies is the same sentiment others have about not wanting the automatic nanny. Watch the latest Fastest Car on Netflix where this mentality is pervasive.
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Old 10-03-2019, 04:23 PM   #675
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Well, the convertible to me looks better than the coupe, but... I just can't love it. I've tried. The whole thing looks cheap and cartoonish, front to rear. Nothing graceful about it. Shame.
It is hard to get past American styling for me too.

But this hardtop convertible should sell a lot.
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Old 10-03-2019, 04:24 PM   #676
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Well, the convertible to me looks better than the coupe, but... I just can't love it. I've tried. The whole thing looks cheap and cartoonish, front to rear. Nothing graceful about it. Shame.
I can appreciate that. My inner racerboy wants one soooo bad.
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Old 10-03-2019, 04:58 PM   #677
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It is hard to get past American styling for me too.

But this hardtop convertible should sell a lot.

Yeah no doubt it will sell like crazy. I'm sure it's an amazing car, and huge value, like every modern Corvette before it. Aesthetics are a very personal thing, I'm sure there are lots of people that like the Civic Type R, and this is a beauty queen compared to that. I'm just picky and am set in my ways Really the proportions of the car are excellent, just smooth out some of the creases, tighten up those air ducts, narrow those wheel gaps, and refine the tail lights, nothing huge, and I think it would transform the looks.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:00 PM   #678
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Autos are faster, but a manual is still less than a half second. I wouldn’t really call it painfully slow unless you need help with your technique.
I tell you ~0.5 seconds shifts many times per lap in my 6-speed Cayman *was* painfully slow after driving my student's PDK. No amount of "technique" will make up for it, it's just lost time. Another benefit is you can shift just about anywhere, whereas with the manual you sometimes have to short-shift to avoid an upshift at a critical point in a corner where you don't want to upset the car.

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True, nannies are a different thing, but the sentiment is the same, which is what I was trying to communicate with the quote instead of just describing my opinion. That doesn’t mean the sentiment is universal, which is why I said it can apply. The point was your sentiment about not wanting nannies is the same sentiment others have about not wanting the automatic nanny. Watch the latest Fastest Car on Netflix where this mentality is pervasive.
I don't have Netflix. But I know what I like. I've known that paddleshifted semi-autos were the way to go since they were introduced in the 1989 Ferrari F1 car! It took a long time but now they are available for us mere mortals.

But of course if there were a mechanism that required you to solve a rubik's cube on top of the gear lever for every shift that had been around forever, and someone eliminated it, some folks would be bent out of shape because now it's "too easy" to shift! All I can say is I don't like "nannies", but I loved the PDK. WAY more than I expected to.
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:27 PM   #679
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I tell you ~0.5 seconds shifts many times per lap in my 6-speed Cayman *was* painfully slow after driving my student's PDK. No amount of "technique" will make up for it, it's just lost time.

All I can say is I don't like "nannies", but I loved the PDK. WAY more than I expected to.
I will need to try more modern PDKs, but the ones I’ve tried (Ferrari F430) and others, they felt clumsy and intrusive. I was the clumsy one, obviously unfamiliar with the paddle shifters and just yearning for a dam stick, but I believe there always will be a disconnect, similar to electronic steering and ride by wire. I appreciate modern technologies, as long as they don’t interfere with tactile feedback, and they don’t substitute my connection with the car, or then it begins just feeling like a video game.

I was thinking, would I want a PDK for the track if I could still have a manual transmission for the canyons and for a daily. Perhaps, if my intuition with the PDK matched my abilities with a manual, and I was hellbent on winning then perhaps.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:34 PM   #680
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I will need to try more modern PDKs, but the ones I’ve tried (Ferrari F430) and others, they felt clumsy and intrusive. I was the clumsy one, obviously unfamiliar with the paddle shifters and just yearning for a dam stick,
I think if you try a modern Porsche PDK, you won't find it "clumsy" or intrusive.

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I was thinking, would I want a PDK for the track if I could still have a manual transmission for the canyons and for a daily. Perhaps, if my intuition with the PDK matched my abilities with a manual, and I was hellbent on winning then perhaps.
I should say I've *only* driven one at the track, I don't know how much I'd like it for "normal" street driving!

But for sure if I get another Porsche, it will have PDK, even if I don't like it as much on the street, it's *that* much better at the track.
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:26 PM   #681
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I think if you try a modern Porsche PDK, you won't find it "clumsy" or intrusive.
The gear changes are unbelievably smooth, but I find the gearbox a bit unresponsive to the paddle/button (too much latency)...I like leaving the 981 in D and using my foot to control it, which usually works fine. When the gearbox is cold it doesn't like shifting as much so I coax it a bit with the buttons but it's kind of annoying.

Maybe the latest Porsche iteration is a little better though.

I can definitely see the McLaren paddles being fun to operate based on the video reviews, those shifts seem like there's zero latency.

If you get a PDK, would you just leave it in auto at the track? It can shift mid-corner just fine I think.
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:40 AM   #682
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The gear changes are unbelievably smooth, but I find the gearbox a bit unresponsive to the paddle/button (too much latency)...I like leaving the 981 in D and using my foot to control it, which usually works fine. When the gearbox is cold it doesn't like shifting as much so I coax it a bit with the buttons but it's kind of annoying.
I only drove it fully warmed up. Honestly I didn't notice much delay, and the quickness and smoothness of full-throttle upshifts (and downshifts) really impressed me.

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If you get a PDK, would you just leave it in auto at the track? It can shift mid-corner just fine I think.
I dunno, I think I'd like to shift it myself. I was surprised that it would downshift automatically in (I think) the most sport/track mode. Which was fine given that I was learning the car but ultimately I think I'd prefer it to leave the up/downshift decisions to ME. SUrely there's a mode where it won't do uncommanded shifts?
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #683
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I was entirely blown away at the speed and smoothness of the PDK shifting. I test drove the car in December and had zero issues involving delay or lethargic shifting, but then again we let the car properly warm up, which should always be done.

On the track I absolutely preferred to be in manual mode, as there are particular points I want to shift up or down to set me up for the next corner. In manual sport it should not shift unless you push/pull a paddle.

For example, Thompson turn 2 I would shift 2->3 mid corner, 100% throttle never lifting, and the car did not flinch the slightest degree, it was unbelievably impressive. Even better I would just roll my wrist to upshift not having to change my grip on the steering wheel.
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:48 PM   #684
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I only drove it fully warmed up. Honestly I didn't notice much delay, and the quickness and smoothness of full-throttle upshifts (and downshifts) really impressed me.

I dunno, I think I'd like to shift it myself. I was surprised that it would downshift automatically in (I think) the most sport/track mode. Which was fine given that I was learning the car but ultimately I think I'd prefer it to leave the up/downshift decisions to ME. SUrely there's a mode where it won't do uncommanded shifts?
The shift itself is pretty much instant but it doesn't have the "pre-cog" thing McLaren has which has a second sensor in the paddle so it'll have the next gear engaged and engages the clutch when you fully pull on it, making for a latency-free experience. In Sport mode it reduces the latency a little, but it's still there and it bothers me.

It downshifts by itself even in normal mode, but in sport it'll downshift aggressively keeping your revs high. Putting it in "M" will prevent any auto-shifts except if you press the pedal to the floor and engage the switch, which shifts it to the lowest possible gear, or if you slow down enough so that it needs to downshift to avoid stalling.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:41 PM   #685
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This is easily one of the best looking cars made within the last decade or so.
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:04 PM   #686
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This is easily one of the best looking cars made within the last decade or so.


This is subjectivity at its finest.
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