FRS/BRZ Extreme racing or Traditional racing for success?

[old greg]

Originally Posted by blur

LOL

Subaru's fans are boost addicts. Nothing more.

Don't forget about the hippies and lesbians.

[MrVito]

Originally Posted by old greg

Uhh... I think this is a little more my speed:
Attachment 3572

I hate to admit it, but these are delicious.

[[es vi: eks]]

Bring back group B :p I so enjoyed watching old vids of that.
I like to see a BRZ and a GT86 do some rallying as well as road/track racing.
Drifting has never really interested me.
The only Drifting Ive ever watched and did enjoy was some on TV from Japan.

[Dragonitti]

To me...

Subaru (with the STI and WRX) is associated with being "performance" cars competing in rally and what not

and Scion is associated with being a "tuners" car, or having cars you would just customize and taking a bit more of a Grass Roots approach with their racing programs.

Subaru has the GT300 BRZ which is great. It has more appeal in Japan to do so or go that route. But the lot of us can't compete in JGTC or build a GT300 scale car. What's the closest we have to JGTC here in the states? Probably ALMS. I don't think Scions demographic finds ALMS all that exciting or appealing (I do, and the lot of us on here probably do, but speaking from a large scale). Scion demographic probably readily identify more with a Time Attack car, Drift Car...something that is a little more readily available to us. A lot of money is put into their racing programs and they are in ever aspect of motorsports, but it's the ones that you and I can join in and compete. I just don't see the so called "serious" racing to be beneficial or closer to home. It's satisifying enough for me anyway to see them in drifting, time attack, drag and endurance racing. Which they have championships and records in all of them.

[#87]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Just disregard the definitions and focus more on the different approaches the two companies are taking. Scion's approach really hasn't helped them increase their sales or popularity in America. Will things change if they keep doing the same thing? Or should Scion change their approach and do something else?

I think what has hurt them is they take their tC and have a sweet rear wheel drive drift machine and sell it to us as a front wheel drive civic competitor.

[2fast4you]

Originally Posted by #87

I think what has hurt them is they take their tC and have a sweet rear wheel drive drift machine and sell it to us as a front wheel drive civic competitor.

I don't think that has made much of a difference. Drifting is such a small niche market, I doubt it has impacted any sales.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

To me...

Subaru (with the STI and WRX) is associated with being "performance" cars competing in rally and what not

and Scion is associated with being a "tuners" car, or having cars you would just customize and taking a bit more of a Grass Roots approach with their racing programs.

Subaru has the GT300 BRZ which is great. It has more appeal in Japan to do so or go that route. But the lot of us can't compete in JGTC or build a GT300 scale car. What's the closest we have to JGTC here in the states? Probably ALMS. I don't think Scions demographic finds ALMS all that exciting or appealing (I do, and the lot of us on here probably do, but speaking from a large scale). Scion demographic probably readily identify more with a Time Attack car, Drift Car...something that is a little more readily available to us. A lot of money is put into their racing programs and they are in ever aspect of motorsports, but it's the ones that you and I can join in and compete. I just don't see the so called "serious" racing to be beneficial or closer to home. It's satisifying enough for me anyway to see them in drifting, time attack, drag and endurance racing. Which they have championships and records in all of them.

I mostly agree with you Dragonitti. I think ALMS is a little too mature for the average Scion motorsport fan, however, the FR-S may change that as Scion had nothing to race in ALMS. Since Subaru doesn't have a factory motorsports presence outside of Japan, I see Toyota showing that the 86/FR-S can compete on all levels, from club to world-class professional competition.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I don't think Scions demographic finds ALMS all that exciting or appealing

It wouldn't really be feasible anyway without a factory turbo'd homologation special. IMSA doesn't allow turbos on cars that came NA from the factory, and the FA just ain't going to cut it in GT racing.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by 2fast4you

I mostly agree with you Dragonitti. I think ALMS is a little too mature for the average Scion motorsport fan, however, the FR-S may change that as Scion had nothing to race in ALMS. Since Subaru doesn't have a factory motorsports presence outside of Japan, I see Toyota showing that the 86/FR-S can compete on all levels, from club to world-class professional competition.

I do too. I think they will stick to WERC endurance racing and Time Attack (SCCA/NASA) when it comes to road racing. And of course Drifting. People call it all sorts, but stil takes skill to pull off 100mph entry speeds before initiating into a Drift.

Originally Posted by old greg

It wouldn't really be feasible anyway without a factory turbo'd homologation special. IMSA doesn't allow turbos on cars that came NA from the factory, and the FA just ain't going to cut it in GT racing.

I hope someone like Crawford comes out with a built N/A block. I think I will go that route now instad of F/I. If it can squeeze 280whp on a built NA motor...it's going to scream like a banshee. I would go that direction.

[2fast4you]

Originally Posted by old greg

It wouldn't really be feasible anyway without a factory turbo'd homologation special. IMSA doesn't allow turbos on cars that came NA from the factory, and the FA just ain't going to cut it in GT racing.

Not at the present, but I see a turbocharged 86/FR-S about 3 model years down the road. As for the FA not cutting it... I don't see why the engine block couldn't hold 450-500 hp, which is the only carry over from the street engine.

[Neutral_Eyes]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Scion's approach really hasn't helped them increase their sales or popularity in America. Will things change if they keep doing the same thing? Or should Scion change their approach and do something else?

I think the problem with their approach to "motorsports" or drifting was that any Joe could not walk into a Scion dealership and leave with something they could drift in. Say what you will about the intelligence of the average drifting fanatic, but even they could tell that their drift tC was a joke.

I think Toyota recognized that they needed to change Scion's marketing approach, and are attempting that with the FR-S. If their approach is to sell rebadged base model Toyotas to lower middle class folks, the least they can do is sell decent cars that people actually want.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by 2fast4you

As for the FA not cutting it... I don't see why the engine block couldn't hold 450-500 hp, which is the only carry over from the street engine.

I am referring to the FA20 as it currently exists.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I hope someone like Crawford comes out with a built N/A block. I think I will go that route now instad of F/I. If it can squeeze 280whp on a built NA motor...it's going to scream like a banshee. I would go that direction.

I would love 280whp (350 crank hp) but it is going to be hella tough on a NA engine. Also plan on $$$ for a engine build of that magnitude. Does Crawford have experience on Subaru NA engines? Didn't see anything for the 2.5RS on their website for engine builds.

Assuming a 8000rpm redline that would be a 350hp/230 ft-lb engine. Even if they increased displacement to 2.5L, that is 92 ft-lb/L. That is unheard of. So I think your goal of NA 280whp engine might be a bit of a dream.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Assuming a 8000rpm redline ... that is 92 ft-lb/L. That is unheard of..

Which is why you'd need 2.5L and 9000+ rpm.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by old greg

Which is why you'd need 2.5L and 9000+ rpm.

Yes 9000 rpm would be drool worthy but still hard to pull off.