FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by KnwsAThngOr2AbutAThngOr2

This.

I would go as far as to argue they aren't sports cars at all. "Sporty", yes, but nothing more than that. This is the part where someone brings up a 20+ year old sports car and compares the FRS/BRZ to it. Today's sports cars have both speed and handling.

Also, yes, the performance numbers do matter (when considering a cars performance capabilities). The same way FE numbers matter when talking about FE.






No, it doesn't, and no, it isn't.

They've gotten into your head too. Brilliant marketing. "Performance numbers aren't relevant when considering performance", "speed/power is not prerequisite of sports cars", "a 200hp car with absolutely no torque is not only more *fun*, but will blow the doors off any current sports car and most super cars".

says the guy with a g37 and a c63 i guess the elise and miata arent sports cars either

[Turbowned]

No worries, none of the cars I've owned are sports cars by his logic, either...

MR2 Supercharged, MR2 Turbo, RX-7 Turbo II, E30 325i, 240Z, 280ZX Turbo, AE86 GT-S, none of those are sports cars

Sports Car: (noun) A sports car (sportscar or sport car) is a small, usually two seat, two door automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling.[1] Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite

Whoops, looks like that means your oinker G37 and C63 aren't sports cars, either!

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by KnwsAThngOr2AbutAThngOr2

This.

I would go as far as to argue they aren't sports cars at all. "Sporty", yes, but nothing more than that. This is the part where someone brings up a 20+ year old sports car and compares the FRS/BRZ to it. Today's sports cars have both speed and handling.

Also, yes, the performance numbers do matter (when considering a cars performance capabilities). The same way FE numbers matter when talking about FE.






No, it doesn't, and no, it isn't.

They've gotten into your head too. Brilliant marketing. "Performance numbers aren't relevant when considering performance", "speed/power is not prerequisite of sports cars", "a 200hp car with absolutely no torque is not only more *fun*, but will blow the doors off any current sports car and most super cars".

The newest Cayman outstrips the 370Z, but in regard to empirical performance metrics, in comparison to the last iteration was very close for half the price.

I'm not suggesting it's "better" than, say, a 2009 Cayman (if nothing else the Chassis on the Cayman is better engineered), but the numbers that tell the tale show these cars shockingly neck and neck.

That's not hype -- that's data.

Put another way, empirically, the latest Z rivals cars that are twice the price. The twins cannot make a similar claim with a shred of legitimacy, and for me, that is a huge disappointment.

But I agree 100% that performance metrics DO matter, and should matter, and it's absurd to pretend that they don't for the sake of promoting the return of an affordable "sporty" (I agree, that's the correct designation) coupe.

Originally Posted by fatoni

says the guy with a g37 and a c63 i guess the elise and miata arent sports cars either

The Elise will blow the doors off of many higher powered cars because it weighs about as much as an after dinner mint.

The Miata is an amazing example of a sports car that could be argued is NOT a sports car, but rather merely a "sporty" car.

The twins have crammed themselves into that astoundingly narrow niche for no clear reason.

What else resides there? Suzuki Cappuccinos? That short lived Sports car variant of the Smart car? Why, Toyota, why?

20 years ago, the FR-S would be brilliant. Today, it's a pretty idiot.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

No worries, none of the cars I've owned are sports cars by his logic, either...

MR2 Supercharged, MR2 Turbo, RX-7 Turbo II, E30 325i, 240Z, 280ZX Turbo, AE86 GT-S, none of those are sports cars

Sports Car: (noun) A sports car (sportscar or sport car) is a small, usually two seat, two door automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling.[1] Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite

Whoops, looks like that means your oinker G37 and C63 aren't sports cars, either!

haha its funny i would argue with you as to those cars being sports cars but i think we agree where the sport car genre is but just not how big it is. that is understandable but to miss the whole segment is kind of confusing

Originally Posted by Jordo!

The newest Cayman outstrips the 370Z, but in regard to empirical performance metrics, in comparison to the last iteration was very close for half the price.

I'm not suggesting it's "better" than, say, a 2009 Cayman (if nothing else the Chassis on the Cayman is better engineered), but the numbers that tell the tale show these cars shockingly neck and neck.

That's not hype -- that's data.

Put another way, empirically, the latest Z rivals cars that are twice the price. The twins cannot make a similar claim with a shred of legitimacy, and for me, that is a huge disappointment.

But I agree 100% that performance metrics DO matter, and should matter, and it's absurd to pretend that they don't for the sake of promoting the return of an affordable "sporty" (I agree, that's the correct designation) coupe.


The Elise will blow the doors off of many higher powered cars because it weighs about as much as an after dinner mint.

The Miata is an amazing example of a sports car that could be argued is NOT a sports car, but rather merely a "sporty" car.

The twins have crammed themselves into that astoundingly narrow niche for no clear reason.

What else resides there? Suzuki Cappuccinos? That short lived Sports car variant of the Smart car? Why, Toyota, why?

20 years ago, the FR-S would be brilliant. Today, it's a pretty idiot.

i havent driven a cappuccino so i cant comment but the frs is still brilliant. i dont think sports car lose their sport over time imo. with that mindset i think it gets easier to figure out what is a sports car. get in an na miata and today it is still tons of fun. if you argue that a miata isnt a sports car, you havent driven it on an open road with an open mind. cars will continue to be faster but that doesnt mean sportier. in 20 years when the camry is faster than the 370z will you think that that falls short of sports car? is the 270z not a sports car anymore?

[Zaggeron]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

The twins have crammed themselves into that astoundingly narrow niche for no clear reason.

What else resides there? Suzuki Cappuccinos? That short lived Sports car variant of the Smart car? Why, Toyota, why?

20 years ago, the FR-S would be brilliant. Today, it's a pretty idiot.

That's rather harsh. I think the twins are in exactly the right place. There are no cars like it at its price point -- Mx-5 is close, but slightly less practical.

I'm sure there eventually will be a "performance" version, but right now I'm happy with my 200HP hotwheel. It's perfect for me as a commuter car. Frankly, if it had been 290 HP and $33k, I wouldn't have bought it -- I would have simply upgraded my DD to a BMW 128/35.

I'm glad there is this car in this so-called "niche" because it justified an "in addition to" instead of an "in place of" my Z. I can happily have both cars because they are different classes and play different roles for me.

[KnwsAThngOr2AbutAThngOr2]

Originally Posted by fatoni

says the guy with a g37 and a c63 i guess the elise and miata arent sports cars either

Miata, no. It's stupid to compare the Elise to the BRZ (which you absolutely are doing) because the Elise has more hp, more tq, weighs 800lbs less, and due to that does 0-60mph in about 4 and a half seconds. FRS/BRZ is not even close.

Originally Posted by Turbowned

No worries, none of the cars I've owned are sports cars by his logic, either...

MR2 Supercharged, MR2 Turbo, RX-7 Turbo II, E30 325i, 240Z, 280ZX Turbo, AE86 GT-S, none of those are sports cars

Sports Car: (noun) A sports car (sportscar or sport car) is a small, usually two seat, two door automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling.[1] Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite

Whoops, looks like that means your oinker G37 and C63 aren't sports cars, either!

Apparently you have not yet garnered ownership of a sports car.

Good job quoting Wikipedia for your "sports car" definition, dingus.

A sports car is defined by power and handling at speed.

Is my G a sports car, no. It's "sporty intro-lux", but it would still spank an FRS or BRZ on most tracks. The 370z is the more track oriented car, my G is just more "comfortable". To knock my C63 P31 coupe, which beats the BRZ around the "Ring" by nearly 2 minutes, is just diarrhea of the mouth.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Put another way, empirically, the latest Z rivals cars that are twice the price. The twins cannot make a similar claim with a shred of legitimacy, and for me, that is a huge disappointment.

20 years ago, the FR-S would be brilliant. Today, it's a pretty idiot.

Yes and yes.

Originally Posted by fatoni

in 20 years when the camry is faster than the 370z will you think that that falls short of sports car? is the 270z not a sports car anymore?

Yes, it's all relative. Things that were high tech 35 years ago, aren't now. B!tches that were hot 35 years ago, aren't now. Cars that were "high performance" 35 years ago, aren't now (without updated modifications).

[Coheed]

I would label this car as a "SPORT COMPACT CAR" yo.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by KnwsAThngOr2AbutAThngOr2

Miata, no. It's stupid to compare the Elise to the BRZ (which you absolutely are doing) because the Elise has more hp, more tq, weighs 800lbs less, and due to that does 0-60mph in about 4 and a half seconds. FRS/BRZ is not even close.



Apparently you have not yet garnered ownership of a sports car.

Good job quoting Wikipedia for your "sports car" definition, dingus.

A sports car is defined by power and handling at speed.

Is my G a sports car, no. It's "sporty intro-lux", but it would still spank an FRS or BRZ on most tracks. The 370z is the more track oriented car, my G is just more "comfortable". To knock my C63 P31 coupe, which beats the BRZ around the "Ring" by nearly 2 minutes, is just diarrhea of the mouth.



Yes and yes.



Yes, it's all relative. Things that were high tech 35 years ago, aren't now. B!tches that were hot 35 years ago, aren't now. Cars that were "high performance" 35 years ago, aren't now (without updated modifications).

by your logic, which i may add is just looking to google for your facts and 0-60 times, the cobalt ss is just as much a sports car as a c class amg since they ran the same time around nurburg? or i could go to knotts berry farm and get on montezumas revenge and do 0-60 in under 3 sec. is that a sports car? im not knocking your cars. they are great cars. im just saying that the miata is more a sports car than either of them. the miatas purpose is sport and sport alone

[Celica00]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

No worries, none of the cars I've owned are sports cars by his logic, either...

MR2 Supercharged, MR2 Turbo, RX-7 Turbo II, E30 325i, 240Z, 280ZX Turbo, AE86 GT-S, none of those are sports cars

Sports Car: (noun) A sports car (sportscar or sport car) is a small, usually two seat, two door automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling.[1] Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite

Whoops, looks like that means your oinker G37 and C63 aren't sports cars, either!

Oh, how i've missed your wit

Originally Posted by KnwsAThngOr2AbutAThngOr2

Miata, no. It's stupid to compare the Elise to the BRZ (which you absolutely are doing) because the Elise has more hp, more tq, weighs 800lbs less, and due to that does 0-60mph in about 4 and a half seconds. FRS/BRZ is not even close.

hmm.. I think i saw a video on the homepage of this very website of the elise being compared to the BRZ/FRS by actual car reviewers. stupid car reviewers not knowing anything about cars.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

Very fair assessment. I feel like Toyota/Subaru have paid off a lot of magazines to promote and market this car. I have never seen a 200-hp car gets hyped up as much as the 86...seriously. You see in magazines and reviews of this car being compared to a lot of sports car which are way out of its league. If that's not marketing scheme, then I don't know what that is.

Uhuh. Magazines like a car that you don't = magazines must've been paid off.

Or maybe it's hyped because there hasn't been a reasonably priced and lightweight RWD 2+2 in a long time, and a lot of people enjoy driving it.

Originally Posted by KnwsAThngOr2AbutAThngOr2

This.

crazyyankeefan was already called out for posting similar things earlier in the thread, but he never replied. Which FRS/BRZ owners think it's the best sports car ever produced?

Originally Posted by KnwsAThngOr2AbutAThngOr2

Miata, no. It's stupid to compare the Elise to the BRZ (which you absolutely are doing) because the Elise has more hp, more tq, weighs 800lbs less, and due to that does 0-60mph in about 4 and a half seconds. FRS/BRZ is not even close.

That's the Elise S and the (no longer available) version of the Elise that was sold in the USA. Do you consider the current Elise and Elise CR (134 HP, 0-60 in ~6 sec, 127 MPH top speed) sports cars?

[DookDookDGM]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

No worries, none of the cars I've owned are sports cars by his logic, either...

MR2 Supercharged, MR2 Turbo, RX-7 Turbo II, E30 325i, 240Z, 280ZX Turbo, AE86 GT-S, none of those are sports cars

Sports Car: (noun) A sports car (sportscar or sport car) is a small, usually two seat, two door automobile designed for spirited performance and nimble handling.[1] Sports cars may be spartan or luxurious but high maneuverability and minimum weight are requisite

Whoops, looks like that means your oinker G37 and C63 aren't sports cars, either!

this. should be /thread

[Boxer-86]

It's pretty laughable that car enthusiasts do not consider the Miata a sportscar. It's a lightweight, two seat, rwd car with a dual wishbone suspension front and rear with a 50/50 weight distribution. All things considered (total cost of ownership, aftermarket, weight) the Miata is one of the best mass produced platforms for modifying and tracking. Turboing them is relatively cheap and they are dead reliable with approximately 250whp. They also accept LS* V8 conversions without substantial chassis modifications. The success of the Miata was undoubtedly an influence on Honda's decision to produce the S2000, is this not a sportscar either?

[Zaggeron]

Originally Posted by KnwsAThngOr2AbutAThngOr2

Miata, no.

Good job quoting Wikipedia for your "sports car" definition, dingus.

A sports car is defined by power and handling at speed.

Jeez. Who made google the provider of the official definition of "sports car" In any event more than one can play that game:

Google def of Miata:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...1c.7eF80TOq1lc

Since a "Roadster" is a type of car, I guess google is defining a Miata as a sports car.

Definition of Triumph Spitfire -- a very slow car by the way

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...1c.bdRHWq4Tn7A


Note that the links are from Wikipedia, but they are curated links that are part of the "define" support from google -- so they are google approved definitions as valid as the one you provided for "sports car"

[Kunzite]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

20 years ago, the FR-S would be brilliant. Today, it's a pretty idiot.

Then, you must believe many here (me included) are idiots, because we like a "pretty idiot" car. Very nice of you.