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Old 10-29-2018, 02:59 PM   #141
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Intake velocity and more efficient air flow distribution between cylinders comes to mind.



Stock manifolds/Single Throttle body is still prone to mal-distribution and reversion.
Those are some of the thoughts I had however.
The trumpets/velocity stacks makes sense, but does the GReddy system utilize this? Once the ITBs are all open it seems like it is functioning pretty much the same as a normal manifold just different runner lengths for shifting power band not really increasing.

Also If the stock system flows more then enough air already, would it matter if some cylinders had more access to air then others if none are still getting less then they utilize? Which seems to be the case if larger TBs and bigger manifolds haven’t shown any gains.
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:11 PM   #142
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Those are some of the thoughts I had however.
The trumpets/velocity stacks makes sense, but does the GReddy system utilize this? Once the ITBs are all open it seems like it is functioning pretty much the same as a normal manifold just different runner lengths for shifting power band not really increasing.

Also If the stock system flows more then enough air already, would it matter if some cylinders had more access to air then others if none are still getting less then they utilize? Which seems to be the case if larger TBs and bigger manifolds haven’t shown any gains.
There's more to tuning ITBs for gains with a modern engine that offers much more permutations in how the power is generated, compared to an old engine where you just go WOT for power.

can flow =/= does flow, just how a 80mm exhaust doesnt offer gains over a 63mm exhaust, on a stock car.


The unfortunate part of all this testing is that it's taking far longer than expected; it seems I will not have ITBs on my car for SLB this year
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:18 PM   #143
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There's more to tuning ITBs for gains with a modern engine that offers much more permutations in how the power is generated, compared to an old engine where you just go WOT for power.

can flow =/= does flow, just how a 80mm exhaust doesnt offer gains over a 63mm exhaust, on a stock car.


The unfortunate part of all this testing is that it's taking far longer than expected; it seems I will not have ITBs on my car for SLB this year

I've never once heard of ITB tuning that goes as planned.



I imagine Ecuteks flash tuning doesn't help with the speed. I guess there's a reason the Zerobreau went Motec.


Will you be running the manifold style adapter that Greddy provided?
Will you try open stacks/individual filters and or dyno with different stack lengths?



Still can't wait to see the results, whatever they may be.
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Old 10-29-2018, 04:10 PM   #144
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I've never once heard of ITB tuning that goes as planned.



I imagine Ecuteks flash tuning doesn't help with the speed. I guess there's a reason the Zerobreau went Motec.


Will you be running the manifold style adapter that Greddy provided?
Will you try open stacks/individual filters and or dyno with different stack lengths?



Still can't wait to see the results, whatever they may be.
It's not that it's not going as expected, but that we're learning and discovering far more than expected, which results in more ideas that need to be tested before the my ITBs come off of the loaner NA test mule CSG provided for NA testing.

You're right; Ecutek definitely doesnt hurt with speed, although we know some ways to slightly mitigate that.
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Old 02-09-2019, 04:12 AM   #145
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Heya, just wondering if NA testing with ITBs is still a thing or not, as this thread hasn't been active for awhile now :S
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:54 AM   #146
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Heya, just wondering if NA testing with ITBs is still a thing or not, as this thread hasn't been active for awhile now :S
The crews at CSG and Delicious Tuning are both still working on NA applications. Understand that engineering is an iterative process that requires time, energy, and money.

If you want to make a comparison, look at the Honda K-series, which has been out since 2001. Tuners and engineers didn't make substantial NA power out of them until the 2010's. And that's in spite of the fact that there was much greater demand because Honda stuck them in all of their most popular models (Civic, RSX/Integra, CR-V, Accord).

Compared to our cars, we're dealing with an engine that's found in literally one vehicle that's sold in very low volume, to a market that doesn't really have deep pockets to begin with. It's going to be a slow-moving process to say the least.

I'm just glad there are tuners out there who are continuing to spend time and money to develop these parts despite the fact that they'll likely never see a big return from their efforts. AND they're being transparent about the process.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:02 AM   #147
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Right now this is a hype thread... if csg and their tuner aren't going to follow up they should say so instead of letting the hype monster 5000 spin it's wheels.


I've found one guy with the sard unit and he said it made big mid-range gains. Matt Busby at national corvette museum is putting the GReddy set on his BRZ track car now and from what I've seen in his posts about it the instructions are garbage and he's had to make runs to the hardware store for missing bolts from the kit.

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Old 02-12-2019, 10:04 AM   #148
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For those curious about Matt's experience with the GReddy units. He's been posting to his Instagram https://www.instagram.com/the.matt.b...=103okhbjkk5v7

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Old 02-12-2019, 10:49 AM   #149
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Right now this is a hype thread... if csg and their tuner aren't going to follow up they should say so instead of letting the hype monster 5000 spin it's wheels.


I've found one guy with the sard unit and he said it made big mid-range gains. Matt Busby at national corvette museum is putting the GReddy set on his BRZ track car now and from what I've seen in his posts about it the instructions are garbage and he's had to make runs to the hardware store for missing bolts from the kit.

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How is it hype when both people that have them up and running are making very decent mid range hp/tq bumps?


I think people are mistaking these for FI alternatives. ITB's are never big power-getters. The only time I've seen them make huge power numbers are on motors where the valvetrain/heads are built to the point where it starts out flowing traditional manifolds or had trash manifolds to begin with.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:16 PM   #150
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How is it hype when both people that have them up and running are making very decent mid range hp/tq bumps?


I think people are mistaking these for FI alternatives. ITB's are never big power-getters. The only time I've seen them make huge power numbers are on motors where the valvetrain/heads are built to the point where it starts out flowing traditional manifolds or had trash manifolds to begin with.
this is very true... on a stock motor there will be literally 0 power gains at the top of the powerband, however from 2k-6k there will be a much meatier powerband as the air is able to flow in without restriction to 4 different throttle bodies directly to the intake ports of the motor.

there are 2 setups that will benefit greatly from this, built high compression motor that redlines at 8k+ with cams and uses e85... the e85 allows the motor to run cooler and with the increase of air at lower RPMs and the more aggressive cams and high redline will widen the spread of the ITB midrange gains, but even then you wont get any "peak gains" over say a ported 2017 manifold and a grams throttle body.

forced induction, having the 4 throttle bodies with a turbo and e85 with allow the compressed air to flow in at an even greater rate and colder due to the e85 than the stock plastic manifold and pump gas. i think that jade_350z has a dyno showing this on his car with the gt2867r kit as well... gushi also ran his car with the itb and t518z set up but both only used pump gas.

if someone buys a stock frs and throws these one and expects to get their moneys worth, they will be severely let down... if you tie in the rest of the mods to actually use the ability for the ITBs to be put to use... then it can be worth while.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:42 PM   #151
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Everyone is looking for the next big na power mod.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:27 PM   #152
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this is very true... on a stock motor there will be literally 0 power gains at the top of the powerband, however from 2k-6k there will be a much meatier powerband as the air is able to flow in without restriction to 4 different throttle bodies directly to the intake ports of the motor.

there are 2 setups that will benefit greatly from this, built high compression motor that redlines at 8k+ with cams and uses e85... the e85 allows the motor to run cooler and with the increase of air at lower RPMs and the more aggressive cams and high redline will widen the spread of the ITB midrange gains, but even then you wont get any "peak gains" over say a ported 2017 manifold and a grams throttle body.

forced induction, having the 4 throttle bodies with a turbo and e85 with allow the compressed air to flow in at an even greater rate and colder due to the e85 than the stock plastic manifold and pump gas. i think that jade_350z has a dyno showing this on his car with the gt2867r kit as well... gushi also ran his car with the itb and t518z set up but both only used pump gas.

if someone buys a stock frs and throws these one and expects to get their moneys worth, they will be severely let down... if you tie in the rest of the mods to actually use the ability for the ITBs to be put to use... then it can be worth while.
Less restriction? What are the flowbench numbers of the stock manifold?
Keep in mind now, the engine will be ingesting measurably warmer air.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:59 PM   #153
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Less restriction? What are the flowbench numbers of the stock manifold?
Keep in mind now, the engine will be ingesting measurably warmer air.

Not necessarily, the benefits of ITB's can still be had with a plenum attached.



It's hard to tell but there have been Cam threads that show the gains were minimized due to flow restrictions in the intake manifold.
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:13 PM   #154
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Everyone is looking for the next big na power mod.
Me! It's always nice when an NA beats a force induction car 😎
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