Manual or Automatic? Why?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

I'll take questions after class.

But I didn't say anything about drivers. Inherent coolness of MT is axiomatic.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

I'll leave it up to your imagination what frame I put the etap on.

DeRosa steel, lugged, old skool ?

Colnago Master ?

Lemond Reynolds 853 steel ?

Ahhhh, what am I thinking. It couldn't be a quality steel machine, it would have to be something plastic-like Carbon, tecno new-skool……but how cool of carbon? The only two carbon rides I'd ever consider riding long term is a : Colnago made in Italy (C40, C50 , C59 , but geometry is king) , or a Calfee (Tetra, Dragonfly, Mantis …. that's it , you can have the rest.

How come roadies are more tecno concerned, then mountain bikers? I see both sides of the coin, since I ride both and converse with both. I see all angles.

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

DeRosa steel, lugged, old skool ?

Colnago Master ?

Lemond Reynolds 853 steel ?

Ahhhh, what am I thinking. It couldn't be a quality steel machine, it would have to be something plastic-like Carbon, tecno new-skool……but how cool of carbon? The only two carbon rides I'd ever consider riding long term is a : Colnago made in Italy (C40, C50 , C59 , but geometry is king) , or a Calfee (Tetra, Dragonfly, Mantis …. that's it , you can have the rest.

How come roadies are more tecno concerned, then mountain bikers? I see both sides of the coin, since I ride both and converse with both. I see all angles.

Nah that's not true at all, so many mt bikers are straight up geeks and 'can't ride' without the blingiest blah blah. I'm a rep for a big bike company and you know what I ride? A good old steel hardtail because things just don't go wrong with it.

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

How is the reliability and maintenance for the autos used in the twins? I know no one who has one for reference.

.

You can find the answer to that by looking in the "Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB" subforum in here. Generally transmission is about 1/6 of all the problems that are posted,
roughly 10 in the last 50 posted currently though. Those are all manual transmission problems. I go through all those posts daily and can't remember ever seeing anybody
having issues with the AT. It's safe to say that the AT is a much safer bet that the MT when it comes to this car.

[Sapphireho]

My AT cars have come in handy when I've been disabled after knee or hand surgery.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

1. I am a bit of a control freak. No transmission is going to tell me what gear I should be in. .

Heck, you would love this machine -


humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Let ">" indicate "cooler than"
Let "{}" indicate the set of operators

Then, by the reflexive properties of mathematics,

You put waaaaay too much thought into that!




humfrz

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

You put waaaaay too much thought into that!

It was a fun read.

[fang_gt86]

Manual. Otherwise, I'd have got a Camry instead.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

Nah that's not true at all, so many mt bikers are straight up geeks and 'can't ride' without the blingiest blah blah.

Some. However I'd say the MTN bike geeks are also roadies and/or use to ride road a lot, but now they've crossed over to MTN (for what ever their reasons). In general though, I'll bet if you polled 100 roadies and 100 MTN bikers , a higher percentage of roadies need the latest and greatest, and their cycling equipment must be flawless (cannot use battle scared road shoes), etc. Versus mountain riders, a larger percentage will ride 8spd, 2x9 , 2x10 , could be an older FS rig , etc not as picky as road…. in general. At least that's what I've witnessed here, out west.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

As for reliability and maintenance, give me a manual...

As someone that has owned multiple cars (both MT and AT) that have gone over 200K miles, I have to disagree with this. Other than regular service I've never had an AT that had to have anything replaced in it other than fluids. Can't say the same for an MT.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

You can find the answer to that by looking in the "Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB" subforum in here. Generally transmission is about 1/6 of all the problems that are posted,
roughly 10 in the last 50 posted currently though. Those are all manual transmission problems. I go through all those posts daily and can't remember ever seeing anybody
having issues with the AT. It's safe to say that the AT is a much safer bet that the MT when it comes to this car.

Most of the conversation with regards to the MT are with the TOB. The rest is people that replace their own clutch using a DIY rather than the actual service manual. A common mistake is the they don't bother adjusting the reverse lockout so it ends up blocking 2nd gear. If you drive an AT and see a constant flow of threads with titles like "can't shift into 2nd" but never actually read the thread then I could see how you could be lead to believe the MT is unreliable. I've not seen anyone discuss actual problems with anything other than consumables or just doing their own work without knowing what they are doing.

I have been impressed with how little discussion there is with regards to the AT though. That isn't the case for a lot of ATs.

For me it's worth it to have to replace a $20 TOB every 60k (hopefully the new bearing fixes this) and spend $375 on a clutch every 200k.

[DarkPira7e]

I do believe that in general, a manual transmission is subject to more chances to be abused / damaged by a negligent operator. Same driver in both should be able to ween the same life out of both. Manual transmission does require part replacement for wear items, but worth it in my opinion. Each has its own merits (I much preferred driving an automatic tow truck to a standard one) and I believe the value in each can be discovered by your usage intent and inherent desire.

That said, I personally much prefer the control of a manual transmission in poor weather, snow, and for daily driving. Not needing to use the brakes to slow down all the time is a huge plus for me.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Same driver in both should be able to ween the same life out of both

Sure, as long as we aren't talking about an abusive/inexperienced driver in both. For example in an AT you are protected from all sorts of harmful things like flat shifts, clutch drops, miss shifts, mechanical over revs, over slipping the clutch, ect ect.