2019 Subaru Ascent - New 2.4 Turbo Flat-Four The Twins Will Never Get

[Poodles]

Sounds more like this might be the new engine for the new STI if you ask me...

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Why would they want to install a 2.4L twin-turbo engine to our cars? This engine is supposed to be used in a HEAVY 7-seater future Subaru model.

You know most North American so-called car enthusiasts do not buy driving dynamics cuz we all know 3 turbos are better than none.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Agreed. Probably because the current lineup isn’t better, right? The FA20 in the new wrx just has direct injection without port injection, and the STI is using the older EJ motor. Regardless, both motors are designed to attach to an AWD transmission and have turbo and header setups built around space the 86 doesn’t have because our motor is like eight inches lower and ten inches further back.

Back on topic, does anyone know if the Ascent will be released with an updated Forester, and if so, what does that look like?

I read an official Subaru statement that the Forester will be updated to the new global platform for the 2019 my.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Interesting speculation, I'd like to see where that leaves the FB25.

The STi is long overdue for an engine, and I think either seeing an FA20DIT with beefier rods, and a bigger turbo/intercooler, or a larger displacement motor with a slightly larger turbo/intercooler would be fine as well. If the rod issue is addressed, I think that motor would be perfectly adequate if the factory supporting hardware was in line. As it stands, dropping the standard WRX motor/turbo/IC setup in an STi would be a bit lackluster. The FA motors need better rods for the STi namesake, not that STi motors haven't had one issue or another plaguing them since the EJ207 was dropped.

I could see an FB25 turbo coming out, not meant for performance, but rather replacing displacement with boost, but I'd love to see an FA25 sort of the way Subaru did the FXT's and LGT's back in the day. An STi motor with just a slightly smaller turbo and a few of the costly tricks missing, (dual ACVS.)

I would definitely miss the 6 cylinder option, but they don't really put an effort into making it plausible. I'd kill for a Legacy wagon with a 3.6l with D4S (D6S?), 6MT with at least an LSD in the rear, bilsteins, brembos, and recaros from the factory...Truth be told I actually tried really hard to get my local dealer to try ordering a 3.6l legacy with an STi trans, but that wasn't going to fly so that's when I test drove a BRZ...

Edit: I'm harping on the dual injection because the FA20DIT cars actually have terrible issues with the valves gumming up due to the lack of port injection. Until you get an AOS, and EGR delete with tune (at minimum,) you pretty much need to get the valves cleaned every 50k.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

Interesting speculation, I'd like to see where that leaves the FB25.

The STi is long overdue for an engine, and I think either seeing an FA20DIT with beefier rods, and a bigger turbo/intercooler, or a larger displacement motor with a slightly larger turbo/intercooler would be fine as well. If the rod issue is addressed, I think that motor would be perfectly adequate if the factory supporting hardware was in line. As it stands, dropping the standard WRX motor/turbo/IC setup in an STi would be a bit lackluster. The FA motors need better rods for the STi namesake, not that STi motors haven't had one issue or another plaguing them since the EJ207 was dropped.

I could see an FB25 turbo coming out, not meant for performance, but rather replacing displacement with boost, but I'd love to see an FA25 sort of the way Subaru did the FXT's and LGT's back in the day. An STi motor with just a slightly smaller turbo and a few of the costly tricks missing, (dual ACVS.)

I would definitely miss the 6 cylinder option, but they don't really put an effort into making it plausible. I'd kill for a Legacy wagon with a 3.6l with D4S (D6S?), 6MT with at least an LSD in the rear, bilsteins, brembos, and recaros from the factory...Truth be told I actually tried really hard to get my local dealer to try ordering a 3.6l legacy with an STi trans, but that wasn't going to fly so that's when I test drove a BRZ...

Edit: I'm harping on the dual injection because the FA20DIT cars actually have terrible issues with the valves gumming up due to the lack of port injection. Until you get an AOS, and EGR delete with tune (at minimum,) you pretty much need to get the valves cleaned every 50k.

With Subaru's very consistent and official statement that they intend to have ALL their models (not sure if they include the BRZ as a true "model") on the universal platform by 2020 I personally can't see them developing several different engines. My theory is that they will just work on more versions of the FA20 or FB series to meet the needs for each model but keep variations down and remain compatible with the new platform. In all of their releases for the new platform they are starting to really hype up how it is designed for future hybrid and electric power plants as well so they may be headed in a different direction than what we expect.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

With Subaru's very consistent and official statement that they intend to have ALL their models (not sure if they include the BRZ as a true "model") on the universal platform by 2020 I personally can't see them developing several different engines. My theory is that they will just work on more versions of the FA20 or FB series to meet the needs for each model but keep variations down and remain compatible with the new platform. In all of their releases for the new platform they are starting to really hype up how it is designed for future hybrid and electric power plants as well so they may be headed in a different direction than what we expect.

I largely agree with you. I think we'll see an FX20 and FX25 block, with different head and induction packaging combos. (Likely a performance head, and an economy head, design it all to hold boost, and use a headgasket, or maybe a different head casting to differentiate compression.)

I sort of liken it to how GM has the LS in everything from luxo-cruisers, work trucks, sports car, etc, all just packaged a bit differently.

If we look to 2007ish in Subaru history, the EJ25 NA, EJ25 Turbo, and EG36 were the only motor options.

Now, we have FA20, FB20, FB25, EJ25 turbo, EG36, it's really unnecessary.

Even simplifying it to a product stack like 07-ish would have huge cost savings. I still can't believe the EJ25 is still in production.

Simplifying it to a 2.0l and 2.5l block, both built to take boost, and using a variable head casting I *think* could make a lot of sense in simplifying the product stack.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

I largely agree with you. I think we'll see an FX20 and FX25 block, with different head and induction packaging combos. (Likely a performance head, and an economy head, design it all to hold boost, and use a headgasket, or maybe a different head casting to differentiate compression.)

I sort of liken it to how GM has the LS in everything from luxo-cruisers, work trucks, sports car, etc, all just packaged a bit differently.

If we look to 2007ish in Subaru history, the EJ25 NA, EJ25 Turbo, and EG36 were the only motor options.

Now, we have FA20, FB20, FB25, EJ25 turbo, EG36, it's really unnecessary.

Even simplifying it to a product stack like 07-ish would have huge cost savings. I still can't believe the EJ25 is still in production.

Simplifying it to a 2.0l and 2.5l block, both built to take boost, and using a variable head casting I *think* could make a lot of sense in simplifying the product stack.

Yes!
This is why I have a hard time believing there is a 2.4 in the works. A company doesn't try to streamline all their cars to one platform and then start making different engines for each and every one of them. They already have a lot of money invested in developing the FB engines so I don't see the case for building yet another type.
Could be totally wrong but we shall see eventually.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yes!
This is why I have a hard time believing there is a 2.4 in the works. A company doesn't try to streamline all their cars to one platform and then start making different engines for each and every one of them. They already have a lot of money invested in developing the FB engines so I don't see the case for building yet another type.
Could be totally wrong but we shall see eventually.

Subaru has surprised me before with what they do, and as stated, I still want a larger displacement 6cyl in a psuedo luxury sedan with performance pack parts, but I think that will have to be a 'one day' project.

Maybe pickup a 2013 WRX shell with a blown everything, and build it all myself exactly how I want it. 3.6l, STi trans, brembos, HRE's, bilstiens, sound deadening... DD'ing in style, and still welcome at Wicked Big Meet.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

Subaru has surprised me before with what they do, and as stated, I still want a larger displacement 6cyl in a psuedo luxury sedan with performance pack parts, but I think that will have to be a 'one day' project.

Maybe pickup a 2013 WRX shell with a blown everything, and build it all myself exactly how I want it. 3.6l, STi trans, brembos, HRE's, bilstiens, sound deadening... DD'ing in style, and still welcome at Wicked Big Meet.

Yep. I am breaking my own rule of 'never attempt to apply logic to an industry that defies logic every day' by applying logic to their engine choices.

[mrspindlelegs]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

Interesting speculation, I'd like to see where that leaves the FB25.

The STi is long overdue for an engine, and I think either seeing an FA20DIT with beefier rods, and a bigger turbo/intercooler, or a larger displacement motor with a slightly larger turbo/intercooler would be fine as well. If the rod issue is addressed, I think that motor would be perfectly adequate if the factory supporting hardware was in line. As it stands, dropping the standard WRX motor/turbo/IC setup in an STi would be a bit lackluster. The FA motors need better rods for the STi namesake, not that STi motors haven't had one issue or another plaguing them since the EJ207 was dropped.

I could see an FB25 turbo coming out, not meant for performance, but rather replacing displacement with boost, but I'd love to see an FA25 sort of the way Subaru did the FXT's and LGT's back in the day. An STi motor with just a slightly smaller turbo and a few of the costly tricks missing, (dual ACVS.)

I would definitely miss the 6 cylinder option, but they don't really put an effort into making it plausible. I'd kill for a Legacy wagon with a 3.6l with D4S (D6S?), 6MT with at least an LSD in the rear, bilsteins, brembos, and recaros from the factory...Truth be told I actually tried really hard to get my local dealer to try ordering a 3.6l legacy with an STi trans, but that wasn't going to fly so that's when I test drove a BRZ...

Edit: I'm harping on the dual injection because the FA20DIT cars actually have terrible issues with the valves gumming up due to the lack of port injection. Until you get an AOS, and EGR delete with tune (at minimum,) you pretty much need to get the valves cleaned every 50k.

Is there a problem with the rods in the FA20DIT? I don't keep up with the happenings on that engine other than some of the brief comments made at FT86club. I did do a search of Subaru Parts Online comparing the part number for the rod in the FA20 vs. the FA20DIT and they were different so the rods should be different. However, different numbers doesn't necessarily mean stronger. Your thoughts / experiences?

[why?]

I could easily see a 2.4 coming with the Ascent and for the STI that is rumored to be some sort of hybrid. Hell, they could easily turn everything into an FA or FB 2.4 and ditch everything else.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by mrspindlelegs

Is there a problem with the rods in the FA20DIT? I don't keep up with the happenings on that engine other than some of the brief comments made at FT86club. I did do a search of Subaru Parts Online comparing the part number for the rod in the FA20 vs. the FA20DIT and they were different so the rods should be different. However, different numbers doesn't necessarily mean stronger. Your thoughts / experiences?

It's what seems to be the first failure point when you ramp boost too fast, or in general is just the first failure point I'd say 85% of the time. It's a decent motor and one that loves to make power, but there's always going to be a first component to go, and it just so happens that it's usually the rods in both the 86 and WRX FA20.

My opinion is that it makes a lot of sense to do pistons and bearings while you're in there. On the EJ25 motors it was pretty easy to just do pistons and hold 400whp, as the pistons were the weak point, and it takes a decent amount of mods to hit that power level. Due to the improvements in the forced induction design and the FA motor in general, it doesn't take much to get within 50whp, (350) which is about where these rods get less happy. The more conservative you tune, the more likely you are to be able to hold the higher power levels, but at the cost of the car being fun to drive across the power band.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by why?

I could easily see a 2.4 coming with the Ascent and for the STI that is rumored to be some sort of hybrid. Hell, they could easily turn everything into an FA or FB 2.4 and ditch everything else.

I don't see the 2.4 coming because they've already developed the FB25. If they drop the FB25 I think it's possible, but they are trying to simplify the product stack with fewer engines/a more comprehensive platform. Unless one is mega overbuilt for high boost, and the other is built totally different for efficiency, I think they'd avoid two similar displacement shortblocks, again unless it's another advancement.

[why?]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

I don't see the 2.4 coming because they've already developed the FB25. If they drop the FB25 I think it's possible, but they are trying to simplify the product stack with fewer engines/a more comprehensive platform. Unless one is mega overbuilt for high boost, and the other is built totally different for efficiency, I think they'd avoid two similar displacement shortblocks, again unless it's another advancement.

If they've done a 2.5 then you are right, no need for a 2.4. Still they only need 2 engines at most.