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Old 10-08-2018, 02:09 PM   #3767
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I got this feeling that when the "covers" do eventually come off it's going to be a massive let down.. Why I say this? Because the camouflage adds drama to the shape that I think the naked car will lack and it's been over exposed.. UK cars out in July 2019!! What's that about ?
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Old 10-08-2018, 07:33 PM   #3768
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:09 AM   #3769
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Yeah I知 kind of doubting they were doing it in the 80s with the higher ride and no aluminum. But I can guarantee you they were focused on getting it as low as possible. That痴 just what you do when building a sports car.
Higher ride? 80s Corvettes were pretty low... C4 height: 46.7", C7 height: 48.6". C4 also had plenty of aluminum, and composite leaf springs, and weighed 100-200 pounds less than a C7. Already mentioned, c.g. height for the C4 was reportedly 14"!
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:48 AM   #3770
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On the whole, today's cars are freaking tall. Those stupid ass pedestrian crash regulations necessitate taller hoods, which in turn requires bigger wheels (to maintain proportions). Whole car is higher up as a result. It sucks.
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:58 AM   #3771
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Higher ride? 80s Corvettes were pretty low... C4 height: 46.7", C7 height: 48.6". C4 also had plenty of aluminum, and composite leaf springs, and weighed 100-200 pounds less than a C7. Already mentioned, c.g. height for the C4 was reportedly 14"!
I wasn't implying they didn't use any aluminium at all (although rereading my post I see I left out the word chassis). I just assumed the C4 would be at a disadvantage by not having a fully aluminium chassis, CF roof, hood and floor. I would think the aluminium and CF in the higher areas of the car would give the C7 a big advantage but apparently not.

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Old 10-09-2018, 08:28 PM   #3772
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On the whole, today's cars are freaking tall. Those stupid ass pedestrian crash regulations necessitate taller hoods, which in turn requires bigger wheels (to maintain proportions). Whole car is higher up as a result. It sucks.
Huh? Crash regulations dictating hood height? Source?

I知 pretty sure hoods are taller because vehicles are bigger, which is a result of many factors. How tall is the C7痴 hood or ours? If there is a standard then it is low.

覧覧覧

The C7 has a larger engine, transmission, etc with more modern electronics than the C4. The two are not even in the same league溶ot in safety, power, performance, braking ability, chassis stiffness, etc. I suppose it sucks that COG and weight were traded for better performance and safety because those two features make a sports car really enjoyable too, but yea, most would prefer the safety and performance of the modern C7.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:27 PM   #3773
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Huh? Crash regulations dictating hood height? Source?
http://www.autonews.com/article/2012...ars-due-in-u.s.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:33 AM   #3774
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Huh? Crash regulations dictating hood height? Source?

How tall is the C7’s hood or ours?
The highest part of the engine has to be at least .8 inches in distance from the hood so when the pedestrian hits they don't strike the engine.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...fatter-feature

I can't find the actual documents from the NTHSA. I'm not sure if these are regulations that the US shares or if it is just European regulations automakers adhere to since it is cheaper just to use the same hoods.

The LT1 is pushrod so no cams on top, making the engine shorter in height and allowing for the low hood. I don't know the height of the front end, but I think they are comparable.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:00 PM   #3775
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The highest part of the engine has to be at least .8 inches in distance from the hood so when the pedestrian hits they don't strike the engine.
Could you name a car that has a hood that comes closer than 0.8 inches of the engine? Because there seems to be plenty of room for strut tower bars and top mounted superchargers in our engine bays. The article seems to just be whining without really giving any concrete numbers or examples. In both articles they kind of say, "Well, haven't you noticed cars are looking boxier...well, it is because of this." Wrong. There could be lots of reasons why the cars look bigger or boxier that have nothing to do with pedestrians and hood clearance.

Some of those reasons could be having a global frame or platform. A large, boxy shape can allow a manufacture to use the same frame for multiple vehicles that are in different classes, but it doesn't make for tight packaging. Another difference is engine size is larger compared to vehicles of the past. Another is vehicle sizes are growing again because oil and gas are relatively cheap compared to inflation. Remember that vehicles of the 70's to the 80's got radically smaller due to the oil shortage and spiking gas prices. And yes, safer vehicles require larger crumple zones, more electronics like airbags, etc, so vehicles have been getting bigger and heavier in general. If you keep adding features and electronics to cars then they need to grow.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:53 PM   #3776
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Could you name a car that has a hood that comes closer than 0.8 inches of the engine? Because there seems to be plenty of room for strut tower bars and top mounted superchargers in our engine bays. The article seems to just be whining without really giving any concrete numbers or examples.
Ah, sorry. I'm merely responding to the question about the height of the hood. All I can say is that EU regulations are X. How struts bars or other additions factor into meeting those regulations would require research that I don't car to do.

Hell, it could be that most cars have always met those standards and the only real change is that market research shows that people like all of their cars to look look like a hulking mass.

But yes, you are right that there are going to be many factors that determine a design of a car that will not be obvious to you or me without someone from a design studio here to share insights into that process.

For example, the Supra is based on BMW's CLAR global architecture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_CLAR_platform), which underpins the new 3, 5, and 7-series, and X5, X7, X8, etc. So yea, if you ask whether designing a global platform for an SUV might "negatively" influence the shape of your sports car, I'd say you are onto something.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:12 PM   #3777
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Any hard points under the hood have to have a minimum crush space allowed. This even includes the freaking windshield wiper mounts. It's fucking retarded, and if you don't think that automakers would prefer lower, sleeker cars (much more aerodynamically efficient) I don't know what else to say. If you look at almost any new car sold today with this in mind it's ridiculously easy to see how artificially tall hoods are. Just look at the side profile, or at the hood at the base of the windshield. Lots of clearance. Cars have gotten noticeably chunkier and taller over the last 15 years and it is a direct result of these (mostly European) regulations.

This is also why the new ZR1 is not available in Europe.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:53 PM   #3778
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Any hard points under the hood have to have a minimum crush space allowed. This even includes the freaking windshield wiper mounts. It's fucking retarded, and if you don't think that automakers would prefer lower, sleeker cars (much more aerodynamically efficient) I don't know what else to say. If you look at almost any new car sold today with this in mind it's ridiculously easy to see how artificially tall hoods are. Just look at the side profile, or at the hood at the base of the windshield. Lots of clearance. Cars have gotten noticeably chunkier and taller over the last 15 years and it is a direct result of these (mostly European) regulations.

This is also why the new ZR1 is not available in Europe.
I see. And you are right, even the rear height is getting taller for pedestrian safety.

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Old 10-10-2018, 01:56 PM   #3779
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Sorry if I was short. This stuff pisses me off to no end. The design of most modern cars is just horrible, mostly because of this.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:40 PM   #3780
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Sorry if I was short. This stuff pisses me off to no end. The design of most modern cars is just horrible, mostly because of this.
Lol I was kinda being sarcastic with the pic above unless rear pedestrian impacts at high speeds is really a concern. I知 sure the rear of the 911 grew taller because of increasing displacement, coupled with more electronics, a water cooled motor vs air cooled, and better aerodynamics.
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