Advice wanted (post searching and reading a lot)

[~el~jefe~]

Just get great tires with light wheels, and make sure you have a set of balls and you'll win every race. I dont think anyone actually pushes their car to need almost any mod they buy. The 86 is a psychedelic racer.

[r_rated]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Why not just buy a car that is what you're looking for? While there's a lot of aftermarket support, if your modification list is that long without even owning the car, this may not be the right car for you unless you specifically like modifying cars.

Have you considered a 987 Cayman, a Miata, Alfa, or S2000? Why did you cross some of the cars you listed off the list?

What exactly do you have done to your 911, and would you consider it superior to a carefully modified GT3 or Turbo-S?

Mine is the last of the N/A Carrera S's. The engine gives excitement and feel that you won't get in the [much faster] Turbo.... 3.6 0-60 with launch control is plenty fast. I wanted a convertible for this car also so no GT3 but also needed an all arounder.

I've done a full valved exhaust and tuning for suspension and ECU, 3rd radiator, GT3 sways, Intake Plenum, full body Xpel, sport lip along with a bunch of minor aesthetic sorting to make it very clean and "mine." It's the best all around sports car at any price point and perhaps the best value given the cost to maintain for what you get... If you can't tell I do love it. But - it's also a log of money for my tax bracket (I had to save and work very hard to achieve this car - not a 911 owner that can just throw money away)and I want something to go hooning in and tracking without worrying about every scar. It's also very refined and as I mentioned - sometimes I just want a hamburger - a light, rattly sports car. Something less expensive so I can take bigger risks in. Auto-crossing is way more accessible and in a car like the BRZ because of the weight and lack of power. You don't need 400+hp and the weight hurts a 911 since the courses are so tight. I bet I can get faster lap times in a stock BRZ than a stock 911... the 911 is certainly faster in the hands of a Rany Pobst or similar (I've had a SCCA and NASA license and have even instructed) but at my skill level the BRZ would still leave me room to grow - even without the mods. This is the case with 99% of track day enthusiasts if they are honest. Some just have different levels of discretionary income and tastes.

Crossed some of these other cars off of the list because the BRZ is the cheapest hardtop to mod, repair and maintain. It's also the most analog. That - and I really do enjoy modding and tinkering. My daily is something I want to leave stock and my 911 is absolutely perfect now.

Really looking for help around the advantages of a 17 given the diff, suspension and brakes are all going to be modded OR get the 17 and not change the brakes or diff. This is where I need the most help and advice.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by r_rated

Really looking for help around the advantages of a 17 given the diff, suspension and brakes are all going to be modded OR get the 17 and not change the brakes or diff. This is where I need the most help determining.

On the basis of hardcore track usage, there is no difference in differential as stated previously, you are misinterpreting the marketing material regarding the traction control adjustments which you'll turn off anyway.

I bet any hardcore track nut would end up tossing the brakes on the '17 BRZ performance pack, otherwise, again, they are the same across all models. You will have to spend $400+ on pads and fluid regardless of which car you get before you can drive it at 10/10ths all day long at the track. Brake kits on this car are less for brake improvements and more for weight and cost reduction.

Get a '14-'16 for cheaper and have fun, I look forward to your impressions. If you can handle the modest ceiling this car has you'll be happy at the end of the day.

Don't go too stiff on the suspension and aggressive on the tires imo, you'll lose the joy of hopping in it and hammering around public roads like you wish to do. A fun quick car doesn't have to have a shitty ride. And spend a bit of time with it stock, it's got plenty of power to slide around even on bigger and stickier tires, provided you can drive it hard enough.

Edit: Based on your edit to the post above, you'll probably have a good time with this car.

[r_rated]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

On the basis of hardcore track usage, there is no difference in differential as stated previously, you are misinterpreting the marketing material regarding the traction control adjustments which you'll turn off anyway.

I bet any hardcore track nut would end up tossing the brakes on the '17 BRZ performance pack, otherwise, again, they are the same across all models. You will have to spend $400+ on pads and fluid regardless of which car you get before you can drive it at 10/10ths all day long at the track.

Get a '14-'16 for cheaper and have fun, I look forward to your impressions. If you can handle the modest ceiling this car has you'll be happy at the end of the day.

Don't go too stiff on the suspension and aggressive on the tires imo, you'll lose the joy of hopping in it and hammering around public roads like you wish to do. A fun quick car doesn't have to have a shitty ride. And spend a bit of time with it stock, it's got plenty of power to slide around even on bigger and stickier tires, provided you can drive it hard enough.

Edit: Based on your edit to the post above, you'll probably have a good time with this car.

Thanks and you are correct on all accounts of properly setting up a car. Case in point the Miata has significantly more body roll and softer suspension but stock for stock is faster in every measurable way - Straight line and Corners.

Fortunately I do fit in the car with my helmut.

With regards to fluid... I have a good stock of Motul

Appreciate the reply about model years. Thanks.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by r_rated

Mine is the last of the N/A Carrera S's. The engine gives excitement and feel that you won't get in the [much faster] Turbo.... 3.6 0-60 with launch control is plenty fast. I wanted a convertible for this car also so no GT3 but also needed an all arounder.

I've done a full valved exhaust and tuning for suspension and ECU, 3rd radiator, GT3 sways, Intake Plenum, full body Xpel, sport lip along with a bunch of minor aesthetic sorting to make it very clean and "mine." It's the best all around sports car at any price point and perhaps the best value given the cost to maintain for what you get... If you can't tell I do love it. But - it's also a log of money for my tax bracket (I had to save and work very hard to achieve this car - not a 911 owner that can just throw money away)and I want something to go hooning in and tracking without worrying about every scar. It's also very refined and as I mentioned - sometimes I just want a hamburger - a light, rattly sports car. Something less expensive so I can take bigger risks in. Auto-crossing is way more accessible and in a car like the BRZ because of the weight and lack of power. You don't need 400+hp and the weight hurts a 911 since the courses are so tight. I bet I can get faster lap times in a stock BRZ than a stock 911... the 911 is certainly faster in the hands of a Rany Pobst or similar (I've had a SCCA and NASA license and have even instructed) but at my skill level the BRZ would still leave me room to grow - even without the mods. This is the case with 99% of track day enthusiasts if they are honest. Some just have different levels of discretionary income and tastes.

Crossed some of these other cars off of the list because the BRZ is the cheapest hardtop to mod, repair and maintain. It's also the most analog. That - and I really do enjoy modding and tinkering. My daily is something I want to leave stock and my 911 is absolutely perfect now.

Really looking for help around the advantages of a 17 given the diff, suspension and brakes are all going to be modded OR get the 17 and not change the brakes or diff. This is where I need the most help and advice.

Based on your post, I want to say you should try doing some track day with a minimally modified BRZ first. Rear sway, oil cooler, alignment, pads, and fluids. If the power is absolutely unacceptably lacking, add a header and tune. If you're sufficiently experienced and are running stickier tires, a BBK up front can be a great long term cost reduction.

Once you drive the car that way, then, start modifying the suspension/diff/power to suit to your taste. Otherwise, you're just throwing on parts without actually knowing the end result, and the internet isn't exactly the best place to gather that information. E.g. the typical "my car is very neutral; it never oversteers ever!", aka "my car terminally understeers at every corner".

Use 0W20; your existing stock of Motul fluids will be largely useless with a BRZ. You'll be able to re-purpose brake fluid, but that's about it.


I almost wanted to make a smartass comment about a 911R or a 991.2 GT3 6MT :p

[exE36M3]

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

Just get great tires with light wheels, and make sure you have a set of balls and you'll win every race. I dont think anyone actually pushes their car to need almost any mod they buy. The 86 is a psychedelic racer.

Ha ha ha DUDE - so true.

BUT r_rated - you sound like a lot of the BMW CCA guys out here in NorCal - in a good way. I *think* once you get some decent seat time in the stock GT86 cars (old and new), you may skip or re-approach some of your upgrades. I settled on a mild-suspension set-up (springs, camber plates, new rear LCAs, alignment settings, wider wheels and decent rubber.) I was shooting for handling like my old E36 M3 (got there and then some for under $2.5k all in). NorCal has some beautiful winding roads coast, mountains, etc. to enjoy it all. Forced Induction? Tabling FI due to kid heading to college.

Miata - turbo and suspension (and caged) will get you something cheap and tossable, but I think the GT86 is more communicative and a better street-able chassis. I had a 91 supercharged, turbo, and 1.8 swapped. Enjoyed the Miata mostly on tracks like Laguna Seca, very predictable - autocross was OK but just something about never going over 35mph got a little old with me.

2-cents.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

autocross was OK but just something about never going over 35mph got a little old with me.

Autox has changed since you last did it, last event I ran had a slalom where we were hitting 60+ mph, anything out at Crow's is set up to require at least one shift to 3rd gear in an 86. I've even needed the third gear shift at Marina with Lotus club of all groups, BMW club is the only one trying to keep cars under 50 mph.

If anything, dropping below 35mph more than 2-3x per course is abnormal, I think 25 mph is the slowest it gets. One of the upsides of all cars getting bigger, heavier, and more powerful I suppose, courses got bigger and faster to keep the pony car guys interested.

[exE36M3]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Autox has changed since you last did it, last event I ran had a slalom where we were hitting 60+ mph, anything out at Crow's is set up to require at least one shift to 3rd gear in an 86. I've even needed the third gear shift at Marina with Lotus club of all groups, BMW club is the only one trying to keep cars under 50 mph.

If anything, dropping below 35mph more than 2-3x per course is abnormal, I think 25 mph is the slowest it gets. One of the upsides of all cars getting bigger, heavier, and more powerful I suppose, courses got bigger and faster to keep the pony car guys interested.

That may be the case - and yes, it's been 15+ years since my last auto-x in the Miata. Thanks for the heads up!

I know the BMW CCA has inked something to do Crow's this season. They are LOVING that venue (Marina seems to be somewhat of a PIA on the administration side).

[r_rated]

Thanks for all of the advice...

Update: Put a deposit down last night on something that came up at too good of a deal to pass on. Getting PPI Thursday. 98 Panoz Roadster. Lots of hate on here for mustangs so don't hate on it too much.