Controlling Oversteer?

[ashtray]

Also a hint: elevation. Flat surfaces are predictable. If you're driving downhill, that back end will come out faster and further and quickly be a handful to correct; while driving up hill is the opposite - quite easy. The back end will come out a little bit with some coaxing and go right back in line with small amounts of steering and throttle correction.

So, if you want to know it's like to spin or nearly spin a car, take a turn from one street to another that is sloping downhill. The turn will possibly be banked "the wrong way" due to the physics involved, helping your car rotate. Turn the car heading uphill and the car won't want to spin and basically just giving it slightly less throttle will stop the back from sliding.

Note, in any car, in any spin: steer (and look) in the direction you want to go.

[Neokolzia]

Ya uber, basically. I've had sometimes simular happen when I hit black ice on my fwd, like the car violently tail swings left and right.

I went around, started to reverse steer, apply smooth power and had my tail come around on me too fast, and steering wheel starts to over power you. No choice but to brake when its going this out of control, not to mention ya not being smart being on a narrow backroad when trying this.

I won't be pushing it stupidly anymore because ya that risk of bailing it in the ditch etc not being worth it. All the same I do want to learn how to control it very least.

And yes that was case with both these hairpins, poorly angled they were flat, but on very steep road, once going up and once going down, down lost control faster and was worst.

I'm not looking to drift the car, I won't be disabling the traction control again in public corners or at least both to try to prevent this, just trying to learn how to go around a corner, and if I say don't do it perfectly and over zealously attempt the corner, forget apexes this is a public road, sometimes you don't get the option when its a blind corner and you don't want to go nose deep into a mini-van.

[ashtray]

Re: Apex. You can apex within your lane. In fact, please do. If you are on a windy road, why cross the center line to straighten out the curves? Isn't the whole point of being on that road bc it has curves?

Anyhow, I choose my apexes or double apex on my daily commute, in a flow of cars, at speed limit. Just practice reading the road and where the apex is and how that sets you up for the next turn. It sure makes the daily grind more fun.

[Ubersuber]

Re Apex, yes, yes. Practice this skill every time you drive. Stay within the lane markings (the law requires it and doing so improves your driving skills) but follow the proper line even though your speed doesn't require it. That way, when the ticket risk drops away and the traffic and other road conditions permit you will be able to let er rip.

Years ago Jackie Stewart (who knows a thing or two about smooth and quick driving) had a street driving video in which he demo'd the "ball test" (not what you're thinking, bravery has nothing to do with street driving). Basically, you learned proper car control with a heavy rubber ball in a large dish fixed to the hood. Drive as fast as you can around a marked circuit without allowing the ball to escape over the rim of the dish.

The point was that to be quick you must be very smooth, reduce the peak g as much as possible while still maximizing speed. Only by reducing peak g (and the rate at which g climbs or recedes) can you get the most out of your tires.

Practice smooth low g driving whenever you can, that means following the "line" even on your morning commute. Try it, you'll enjoy your drives in this car so much more.

[Neokolzia]

I do apex my corners, have been playing racing games since I was a little kid, gran turismo 1&2 lol.

I know how to follow driving lines and corners; issue I had like I said was I got bit really hard when I tried to let the rear end out, flat out, scared the shit out of me lol, having it violently thrash like that, when I've done it on snow/light gravel it feels completely in control, but when I did it there just it wans't in control at all, on asphault the back end went far faster out of my control then I could get ahold of it.

Did I mat the gas too much in second, crank too hard? Just need to learn the balance of the two I'm assuming, either way I won't be turning off VSC totally off again, and just sport mode on perhaps.

[MGPAX]

You're never going to know EXACTLY how much traction you have in any given curve the first time you drive that curve. Debris, road material, moisture, angle, counter angle etc. are a turn by turn thing. I would suggest you go to a perfectly flat place away from people and cars and just make your own corners until you understand how the car reacts to what you do.
You'll never know what the car can and can't do until you take it too far!

You'll always need to be correcting for something in the real world. A track can be learned, but the real world is just too big for that! LOL

[Cope52]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Years ago Jackie Stewart (who knows a thing or two about smooth and quick driving) had a street driving video in which he demo'd the "ball test" (not what you're thinking, bravery has nothing to do with street driving).

Also, "try using one gear higher than you think you need". I had that tape back in 1987. I don't know what all this oversteer talk is about. The BRZ understeers quite a bit. I have yet to get the tail out for all my cornering antics, but then I'm on Pilot Super Sports, am smooth, and use higher gears.

The stock tires are horrible, not "fun" as the mags would have you believe. They feels like shit the minute you turn the wheel--long before the tail would ever come out.

[Akari]

Originally Posted by Cope52

Also, "try using one gear higher than you think you need". I had that tape back in 1987. I don't know what all this oversteer talk is about. The BRZ understeers quite a bit. I have yet to get the tail out for all my cornering antics, but then I'm on Pilot Super Sports, am smooth, and use higher gears.

The stock tires are horrible, not "fun" as the mags would have you believe. They feels like shit the minute you turn the wheel--long before the tail would ever come out.

Are you driving with traction control and VSC off? On stock tires the back end was insanely easy to get out and on 235 Pilot Super Sports it's still fairly easy if I try or misjudge a corner by a little. The tiniest bit of trail breaking into a corner will eliminate all understeer.

[FRSfan111]

Play in a large open empty parkinglot in the rain. Only way to learn is to feel it.

[Laika]

I think a completely empty parking lot is the worst place to learn. It gives you the false idea that you have all the space in the world to correct yourself. Find some cones and don't be afraid to hit them.

[ashtray]

Empty parking lot is the most safe place:

[ame]http://youtu.be/_UISfUybSNM[/ame]

"George, George, George of the Jungle - Watch out for that tree!"

*thunk*

[Ganthrithor]

Book yourself some time at a car control clinic, if there are any in your area. A skid pad and cones are the only good way to learn this stuff. If there aren't any driving schools remotely nearby, then see if you can get permission to use a deserted parking lot or something. Bring some cones along and set up a course so you have some fixed reference points to look at.

Autox can be helpful for learning handling too, but less so if you're trying to learn how to slide, since drifting is generally discouraged (if you're sliding around and bowling tons of cones over, you slow the event down for everybody).

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by ashtray

Empty parking lot is the most safe place:

"George, George, George of the Jungle - Watch out for that tree!"

*thunk*

That parking lot doesn't look empty to me... it has a load of pillars in it ... oh and the driver found one :

[Cope52]

Originally Posted by Akari

Are you driving with traction control and VSC off? On stock tires the back end was insanely easy to get out and on 235 Pilot Super Sports it's still fairly easy if I try or misjudge a corner by a little. The tiniest bit of trail breaking into a corner will eliminate all understeer.

Yes. But after 10 minutes I look at the dash and the lights are gone. Is the system turning itself back on? If so, shame on Subaru. But I'm fine with it on, doesn't intervene with my driving.

I'm only talkin back roads driving here. I don't brake into corners. I accelerate into and thru them.