Traded my FR-S for a Mustang GT: A cautionary tale

[Reason]

Originally Posted by fduboss302

Have most people who have talked about how amazing the driving feel of the twins driven a Miata? I'm really surprised considering that I actually miss the fun factor of my NB (yes compared to the BRZ).

I needed a more practical daily and it was wrecked so onto the BRZ, no regrets. Just surprised there's not more Miata leg humping here.

Originally Posted by Vracer111

Driven Miata's in an autocross environment and was actually seriously considering getting one, but once the FRS came about the miata went out of my sight without a second thought for several reasons:

1 - Its a convertible (would have gutted the entire convertible system, and permanently installed a rollbar and hardtop - do not like convertibles.)

2 - I'm 6'2"...and the miata would be my only daily-driver vehicle. I can only fit properly in one if a special racing seat is installed in a fixed position - stock seats are not great at all for my ergonomics and a fixed position steering wheel with a fixed position seat is not going to work well for a daily driver. FRS has all kinds of room in comparison...

3. Suspension/chassis - lacking in sharpness/preciseness compared to the FRS, would have required some work to get it near what the FRS is stock...

4. Styling. Miata just can't compete with the FRS at all in this regard....the FRS interior and exterior arrangement/design is much more to my liking. A nimble, precise, and comfortable exotic looking 2 door coupe sportscar is exactly what i wanted.

Miata is a nice handling car, but the chassis characteristics of the FRS are much better to me. People talk about how the miata has a better shifter feel and steering feel; really doesn't mean much to me. I care about how the chassis feels and how precisely I can yaw the car around its point of balance more than shifter/steering wheel feels. As long as the steering wheel and shifter are direct enough with information on whats going on with the car I don't need the extra feels to balance a chassis; a more muted and less 'live' feel in a steering wheel and a stiffer/more positive shifter is actually my preference.

People also rave about the smooth/preciseness of FWD Honda shifters, I've never liked them either, much prefer my Tacomas shifter over any honda FWD shifter - give me a real gearbox, not cables or linkage tubes! The shifter I've liked best was the Hurst Competition + unit in my 4th gen Camaro, super positive and precise long lever with a heavy click feel into each gear...nearly perfect! The chassis dynamics is why I enjoy the FRS more than the miata, and even stock the FRS is not really quick enough in reflexes or rotation for my taste, but its attitude is about there. I also like the longer wheelbase of the FRS and its stability in high speed corners...

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

^^^

Similar story here. I love the Miata on the street, but compared to an NC Miata (for example) the FR-S has more track-ready stock suspension, arguably better steering (worse feel, but more precise and faster ratio), and much better usability/practicality.

Also agree on looks, but that's subjective so could go either way.

What sealed the deal for me though is that the Miata needs a roll-bar to pass tech inspection at the track. That pretty much eliminates its ability to be a street car for me.

Originally Posted by Frost

Even MotorTrend agrees with the above two posts. They say the Twins are more "serious" with the factory suspension and more for the track and racing whereas the Miata is a great daily driver whose suspension is tuned more for the road and less for the track hence the requirement to firm it up once you dedicate it for the track. I've driven the NC Miata and yes, the stock form has a decent amount of roll compared to the Twins. A friend of mine finally gutted the suspension and just then, it felt slightly better than the Twins - that's how good the factory setup is.

These posts said it already, but to add to the reasons; I love the Miata but i'm just too big to daily drive one. I've tried, twice. Borrowed Friend's NA and NB's and I just couldn't do it. I also don't love the look of the NC (that front end doesn't work for me) and for my purposes, i'm only considering new cars as a daily driver.

That said... for a few months now I have considered building a weekend only Miata and keeping my Mustang. I'd have a good long distance cruiser, a better canyon carver and it's more responsible from a financial perspective. For my size I would need to bolt a seat to the floor but after that it would be great. The point still stands however that I would rather have a BRZ but the great thing is in a couple of years they will still be around.

I didn't mention it because I feel it detracted from the real point which is that the twins are so rare in their driving purity, that others should be hessitant to move on from them.

Originally Posted by stock

OP,
Awesome comparitive review of the Mustang and FRS/BRZ. I was nearly going to buy the Camaro or GT and went with the FRS mostly due to my lifetime experince with 4cyl Japanese cars making me happy and the FRS/BRZ being touted as my dream car.

Occasionally (especially in this hotter summer weather...) I have the same experience with lack of torque. I will re read this post every time I think I made a poor choice.
Thanks much. Seriously.

Thank you very much. I really enjoyed writing it.

[stock]

Originally Posted by Frost

87 myself too! I loved her lots but she didn't love me as much (story of my life). Even with the Twin, you still want an AW11? Why? They were a pain to work on.



I think you meant poke-her in the rear

FWIW, I had a 1988 MR2 and now, still drive a 1986. Great little cars. Always fun.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by AVodka14

Great read. I was contemplating the exact swap. I love the 5.0 Mustang. I just had this feeling that I would miss the FRS. Therefore I am keeping her as long as I can. Let us know what you end up with. Welcome back, I guess...

Same here man, same here. I even have a 350whp turbo FR-S and was considering it because I could drop some money into it (Mustang) and probably crank 500whp or so out of it.

But nothing beats the steering feel and overall person-to-car feel ratio in this price range. The next cheapest thing with the same model year would probably be the new Porsche Boxter for $50k.

[hmong337]

Good honest post!

Sure the power isn't there but that's what turbochargers are for

[Masago88]

OP, it is not true that there's no difference between 2013 and 2014. For the vast majority of owners out there, yes, but for Canadian owners/prospects the primary difference is - the 2013 Canadian BRZ models use a different system, and it uses this crappy clip on Mic (looks very aftermarket) for the pioneer system. The 2014 Canadian models went away with this in favor of the standard flush/built in Mic. Granted people don't buy this car for the audio/mic but something to note. I was looking into a lightly used 2013 model and when I actually saw it, decided to pick up a new MY2014

[Chupacabra]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

haha no.. thinking MGB/MGBGT, S800, 2002, Spitfire, etc. Good american cars from those days cost too much money.

Check these out Dave, might be in the cards for you:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...b/1651649.html

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...6/1646653.html

[OrbitalEllipses]

Oooh that TR6.

[Reason]

Originally Posted by Masago88

OP, it is not true that there's no difference between 2013 and 2014. For the vast majority of owners out there, yes, but for Canadian owners/prospects the primary difference is - the 2013 Canadian BRZ models use a different system, and it uses this crappy clip on Mic (looks very aftermarket) for the pioneer system. The 2014 Canadian models went away with this in favor of the standard flush/built in Mic. Granted people don't buy this car for the audio/mic but something to note. I was looking into a lightly used 2013 model and when I actually saw it, decided to pick up a new MY2014

Thanks for the tip. My 2013 FR-S had the proper flush mic, and I've only sat in 2014 BRZ so I didn't know.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by fduboss302

Have most people who have talked about how amazing the driving feel of the twins driven a Miata? I'm really surprised considering that I actually miss the fun factor of my NB (yes compared to the BRZ).

I needed a more practical daily and it was wrecked so onto the BRZ, no regrets. Just surprised there's not more Miata leg humping here.

You're still new here so I'll let this slide. But certain people here still praise the Miata on a regular basis despite owning a FRS/BRZ. The reason they're even here after all this time is due to practicality. They have a real waifu to please and kids to chauffeur.

[autobrz]

I agree with your sentiment and can completely understand, despite many others disagreeing and missing the point.

To me, the BRZ was too serious. It's body motions too well controlled to be as fun as a miata where it is still very nimble but less controlled for serious track driving. The difference between precise, fast and nimble, fun can be boiled down to something I asked my friend yesterday, "what do you feel is more fun to drive fast around corners, a car that doesn't have body roll or a car that has body roll?" his answer, "I feel more comfortable in the car without body roll." I continued, "But which one is more fun?" His answer, "Of course the car with body roll will give you more feel and more fun."

Originally Posted by fduboss302

Have most people who have talked about how amazing the driving feel of the twins driven a Miata? I'm really surprised considering that I actually miss the fun factor of my NB (yes compared to the BRZ).

I needed a more practical daily and it was wrecked so onto the BRZ, no regrets. Just surprised there's not more Miata leg humping here.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by autobrz

I agree with your sentiment and can completely understand, despite many others disagreeing and missing the point.

Miata defenders. I can't find a single person who disagreed. Literally everyone said they either (1) loved the Miata, or (2) almost bought one, but... [insert blank].

Good grief, what more do you want people to say? Or in your opinion, did everyone who chose an FR-S/BRZ over a Miata simply "miss the point?"

The Miata is not the perfect car. Neither is the FR-S/BRZ. There are valid reasons to pick one over the other. Or any number of other cars, depending on subjective preferences and intended uses.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Miata defenders. I can't find a single person who disagreed. Literally everyone said they either (1) loved the Miata, or (2) almost bought one, but... [insert blank].

Good grief, what more do you want people to say? Or in your opinion, did everyone who chose an FR-S/BRZ over a Miata simply "miss the point?"

The Miata is not the perfect car. Neither is the FR-S/BRZ. There are valid reasons to pick one over the other. Or any number of other cars, depending on subjective preferences and intended uses.

Kids in the Hall ruined the Miata for me.

[autobrz]

The point that was missed in all replies was what I am quoting below and I elaborated on why I understand this point.

Originally Posted by fduboss302

I'm really surprised considering that I actually miss the fun factor of my NB (yes compared to the BRZ).

Ok, so "disagree" was not a good choice of word. Rather, arguing over different priorities. I do agree the 86 is a better track car and more practical and all that. I also do get why the miata is more fun for people that are not too serious about going fast.

p.s. I think there might be a communication problem here and you're not e-reading my intention here correctly. I've never even owned a miata but I have owned a brz. I still say miata is more fun on the street and that's it. I am responding to all the people that say the brz is a better track car. I am saying better track car does not mean it's more fun on the street than the miata.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by autobrz

Ok, so "disagree" was not a good choice of word. Rather, arguing over different priorities. I do agree the 86 is a better track car and more practical and all that. I also do get why the miata is more fun for people that are not too serious about going fast.

First, not sure anyone argued that the Miata was less fun than the FR-S.

Second, fun is very subjective. Some will prefer more body roll. Others will prefer less body roll (yes, even on the street). Arguing which car is more fun is interesting, but ultimately there's no right answer.

I happen to think the Miata is more fun on the street, but that has nothing to do with suspension and everything to do with putting the top down. But I wouldn't try to argue that anyone who disliked top-down motoring didn't get it or was missing the point. That's just their preference and it's valid.