Why would more power ruin the car??

[mrg666]

This car is designed with limited power and ultimate handling but it is also highly suitable for modifications. There are reliability, performance, handling tradeoffs as in all engineering projects. Do your research, understand the consequences, and just do what *you* want. I think better performance is not fitting the marketing strategy of the manufacturers. Otherwise, I know a more powerful *and* more expensive car is technically possible without ruining the characteristic design.

[nikitopo]

@Veloist: I don't think his argument is "needs more power". It is more about "if more power ruins the balance of the car".

And I would be more careful about statements of high standard of quality that both brands are known for meeting. Cough cough. I ordered some factory exhaust parts lately and I wouldn't really say that the quality was high enough. They even accepted to replace the part with a new one, but even after searching their warehouse in Japan for a better quality product they didn't really met the expectation of high quality! I don't really want to start posting pictures of what I received and what they proposed to me as an alternative, but it is really a shame of where both companies are heading lately and in fact consumers have no idea about it. A customer will never take apart a new car's exhaust to check what is inside and especially on material before the catalyst that could cause loss of power or even significant damage.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

If you are talking about more linear power, then it will not ruin the car anywhere. The only thing is to upgrade to better tires to keep the balance. My own car feels of an equivalent 250-260hp car and I don't think it has been ruined somewhere. Same if you install a good supercharger and go up to 280hp. it will feel like you have a larger displacement engine. The issue is with the turbos, where you'll get an instant torque increase and there the balance is ruined.

Did we reach 260hp now? just few days ago you liked to say it felt like a 240hp?
next week, 280?
all of that with a stock engine, canned tune and oem header and 2 cats...
nice info here, nikitopo


the feel doesnt mean nothing, i can say my car when i drive it, feels like a F12 Superfast, but that doesnt make it any faster o powerfull
you either start doing real world measurements and comparison, or you should stop saying your car pulls faster than a Porsche like you said. No one can start believing you otherwise

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Did we reach 260hp now? just few days ago you liked to say it felt like a 240hp?
next week, 280?
all of that with a stock engine, canned tune and oem header and 2 cats...
nice info here, nikitopo

When you are working on weight reduction of rotational and non-rotational parts and not just on power, then it depends also with what you compare it. The acceleration comparison I did last time it was based with a '13 year UK car which is around 1230kg (2712 lbs). The latest cars and especially in US are known to be much heavier pretty close to 1280-1290 kg (2822-2844 lbs). It depends also the trim level. If you do a simple math equation, then you'll find that weight to power ratio gives an equivalent from 240hp to 251hp if you compare it to the heavier car. I said feels like 250-260hp, because we cannot even agree if the first cars had an actual 200hp or a 190hp power figure.


Do your research better next time.

[tomm.brz]

how much weight have you shred on your car then?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

When you are working on weight reduction of rotational and non-rotational parts and not just on power, then it depends also with what you compare it. The acceleration comparison I did last time it was based with a '13 year UK car which is around 1230kg (2712 lbs). The latest cars and especially in US are known to be much heavier pretty close to 1280-1290 kg (2822-2844 lbs). It depends also the trim level. If you do a simple math equation, then you'll find that weight to power ratio gives an equivalent from 240hp to 251hp if you compare it to the heavier car. I said feels like 250-260hp, because we cannot even agree if the first cars had an actual 200hp or a 190hp power figure.


Do your research better next time.

More quasi science applied just like usual. And the ever popular "I don't think this so it isn't true" to the facts. Very cute how you take the weights and convert it to HP when it meets your needs. The first cars had 200HP that is not up for debate. No they did not put that to the ground but that does not mean that is what they were rated at.
Congrats on beating Mike BRZs 221NA record claim with a couple of bolt on parts and a tune. Good work as always.

[tomm.brz]

if your car "feel" (a k a behaves?) like a 260hp brz...so you are almost up in par to a slighty underpowered supercharged brz? cool..who knows why people spend 5k to get a kit..

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

if your car "feel" (a k a behaves?) like a 260hp brz...so you are almost up in par to a slighty underpowered supercharged brz? cool..who knows why people spend 5k to get a kit..

I would never suggest everyone going this way. A supercharger solution is less expensive and a much better alternative for a daily driven car. It is just funny that some people don't believe that lightweight rotational parts work. They are not the complete equation, but a part of the equation. Maybe they should share their "wisdom" with some racing teams that were doing all these things for decades.


Anyway, we are getting off the topic and I don't really like the

[SCQTT]

Some of you get it, Veloist, and some of you don't, Borchert97.

I doubt if there will be a new version of the 86 in NA, and I doubt if the current one will make it past the 2021 model year.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I would never suggest everyone going this way. A supercharger solution is less expensive and a much better alternative for a daily driven car. It is just funny that some people don't believe that lightweight rotational parts work. They are not the complete equation, but a part of the equation. Maybe they should share their "wisdom" with some racing teams that were doing all these things for decades.


Anyway, we are getting off the topic and I don't really like the

it s not so off topic with the title, we can continue
for example you can say to us how much weight have you shred from your car and how?


Also, it seems you really are comparing a weight loss to supercharger.. which it makes no sense since a forced induction will increase torque in all the output band therefore a supercharger WILL always beat your weight shredding. By the time your car reach a 100hp output, a supercharged one has already almost double

speaking of peak output, i still don t believe you could have, at 6800-7000 rpm, a similar performance of a 260hp brz even if you feel like it could, even if it s a bit heavier
but then we should again know how much weight we are talking

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I would never suggest everyone going this way. A supercharger solution is less expensive and a much better alternative for a daily driven car. It is just funny that some people don't believe that lightweight rotational parts work. They are not the complete equation, but a part of the equation. Maybe they should share their "wisdom" with some racing teams that were doing all these things for decades.


Anyway, we are getting off the topic and I don't really like the

Racing teams would laugh at your claims of the results you have from the mishmash of changes you made. In fact there are two racing teams on this forum that have done exactly that but you just dismiss their comments.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

@Veloist: I don't think his argument is "needs more power". It is more about "if more power ruins the balance of the car".

And I would be more careful about statements of high standard of quality that both brands are known for meeting. Cough cough. I ordered some factory exhaust parts lately and I wouldn't really say that the quality was high enough. They even accepted to replace the part with a new one, but even after searching their warehouse in Japan for a better quality product they didn't really met the expectation of high quality! I don't really want to start posting pictures of what I received and what they proposed to me as an alternative, but it is really a shame of where both companies are heading lately and in fact consumers have no idea about it. A customer will never take apart a new car's exhaust to check what is inside and especially on material before the catalyst that could cause loss of power or even significant damage.

These are some pretty heavy accusations without any proof. Not sure what you expected from a massed produced exhaust component or what you received but it was no doubt well within the specs and normal for any level of "quality".

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

Some of you get it, Veloist, and some of you don't, Borchert97.

I doubt if there will be a new version of the 86 in NA, and I doubt if the current one will make it past the 2021 model year.

Forums consist of many people that figure they can out engineer the manufacturer. Really easy to second guess tem when there are no restrictions to deal with like they have. There are people that are convinced that the torque dip is only there because the engineers can't figure out how to get rid of it. That thought is just ridiculous.
We see people say "they can just throw a turbo/supercharger/bigger engine in it and sales will go way up. Those same people have no clue what the emissions, mileage, and passenger/pedestrian safety requirements that the manufacturer are. The design engineers have thousands of parameters that they must stay in and just throwing parts at it is not something they can do. Just adding a SC would require all new crash tests and emission control /mileage approvals. This would cost millions and the investment would be foolish just to sell a few hundred high power model versions a year. Wouldn't matter what they did to it anyway half the people complaining about power would still say it was not enough. Hell, how many people buy a WRX or STi and leave it stock?

[SCQTT]

Tcoat, my day job is product development. Your assessment is spot on. I'm not certain if everyone considers that Subaru and Toyota are in this for profit. They need a return on their investment, very seldom are projects done to simply to scratch an inch or to appease enthusiasts. Even SEMA and autoshow budgets, while often massive, are justified by consumer feedback and brand exposure.

One only needs to look at the death of the successful (and much better selling than the 86) FJ Cruiser to see that Toyota has little patience for low volume models, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY ARE LOVED.

The twins are circling the drain.