Supra...killing the 86/BRZ?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

Better get another bucket.

[Impureclient]

People, I just want to say, you know, can we all JUST get along? Can we get along?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

People, I just want to say, you know, can we all JUST get along? Can we get along?

No.
You aren't my real dad!

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

People, I just want to say, you know, can we all JUST get along? Can we get along?

Interesting. We just took our three granddaughters home after they spent the day and evening with us and that's what ma-ma was saying to all three of them for the last hour -

pa-pa - getten too old for this shit -

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Interesting. We just took our three granddaughters home after they spent the day and evening with us and that's what ma-ma was saying to all three of them for the last hour -

pa-pa - getten too old for this shit -

And did it work?

[Juzzotec]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

My 86 is an MT if that makes you feel better. My 13 was an AT, so I can say with some confidence it was just as "involving" as the MT is. The auto-blip downshift was great fun, I might go so far as to say "involving", and mine had a second pedal, a brake, which took some skill to use. In fact, it was pretty much the same as an MT when it came to making decisions and acting on them. You know, being a "driver".

And this is how you lost the argument... how could you ever compare driving a manual 86 to an automatic "let me do all the work for you" 86. Where is the comparison exactly? Auto Blip, come on man wake up, what involvement are you talking about... If more people drove manual, you would have less accidents on the road. People these days want to do other distracting things while driving, thats why they buy automatic - real car enthusiasts don't buy auto full stop. I could not think of a worst car to buy than an auto 86/BRZ. It's already got no torque, slow off the line... the auto just makes every aspect worse. Manuals are dying because people simply aren't really interested in "driving" they just want something that looks sporty or has class that gets them to A to B.

[jrb363]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You could have just said this and had full support but no you had to spew all the standard "I am a better driver because of MT" bullshit. Most basic elitist and self congratulatory hogwash made up by the new to MT crowd.

Put your money where your mouth is and show us some evidence that MT drivers are in anyway safer.

Reading comprehension would do you well. I said driving a manual gives ME more confidence, makes me FEEL more connected and more aware of my surroundings. I've looked for statistics for years and, outside of whatever your local insurance guy feels like making up to justify their rates, they don't exist in the public domain.

Driving a manual isn't elitist. You've put words in my mouth numerous times on this site and I don't appreciate it.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[new2subaru]

Here we go again. It doesn't seem to matter what the subject is it always turns into a MT vs AT debate.

Some prefer MT some prefer AT. Why can't it just be left at that? It's getting so old....Every thread turns into this stupid debate.

[Juzzotec]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Here we go again. It doesn't seem to matter what the subject is it always turns into a MT vs AT debate.

Some prefer MT some prefer AT. Why can't it just be left at that? It's getting so old....Every thread turns into this stupid debate.

I personally don't mind what people prefer at the end of the day. I just get annoyed when someone calls an automatic vehicle "involving", it rubs me up the wrong way. And maybe... the new supra only available in Auto is a sign of things to come. It's going to be a sad day when the manual transmission is gone.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It is a BMW so most of the dips will be behind the wheel.

I represent that remark...

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Juzzotec

.. I just get annoyed when someone calls an automatic vehicle "involving", it rubs me up the wrong way...

Why? I mean, I much prefer MT personally, but it sure doesn't bother me that others may prefer AT. Should it bother me that some people like to decorate their homes with bright colors, while I prefer earth tones? Different likes for different tykes.. that's all.


Even as an MT supporter/enthusiast/end-user/proponent/fancodger, I can understand how AT COULD be more involving to those who prefer it. "Driving" can be defined as anyone wishes, and defining it as careful integration of visual and tactile input with manipulation of the steering, throttle, and brake to achieve desired outcomes would certainly work. For those who wish to concentrate on those variables without the added workload of manually selecting and moving between gears using two additional controls (shift lever and clutch) and additional throttle manipulation, the act of "driving," i.e., steering and throttling through a course, could very well BE more involving without the "distraction" of having to also shift gears manually. There's also an undeniable physical aspect to MT that, as we all age, becomes slightly less attractive when hip, knee, and or back pain come into play. Pain is distracting, not involving.



Having said all of that, for ME, I've shifted enough that it is no longer a thought process, but rather an instinctive physical reaction to sound and feel. I enjoy it, and I do find that it is a more "involving" driving experience for me. Knock on wood, the little aches and pains that occasionally crop up usually don't interfere with my enjoyment of MT driving... but sometimes they do. I can see a time when MT could become more of a chore and less of a joy.

Originally Posted by Juzzotec

It's going to be a sad day when the manual transmission is gone.

For me, too. It will be a sad day for all of us who prefer MT. Those who prefer AT probably won't care at all. Welcome to the world... it's ok. Stuff doesn't always work out.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jrb363

Reading comprehension would do you well. I said driving a manual gives ME more confidence, makes me FEEL more connected and more aware of my surroundings. I've looked for statistics for years and, outside of whatever your local insurance guy feels like making up to justify their rates, they don't exist in the public domain.

Driving a manual isn't elitist. You've put words in my mouth numerous times on this site and I don't appreciate it.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

My comprehension is just fine thank you. You wrote two lines on how you prefer the MT which were well said and accurate. then you came up with a whole paragraph on how people that drive ATs are all distracted morons that can't touch your level of awareness and superior skills. THAT is just not real.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Here we go again. It doesn't seem to matter what the subject is it always turns into a MT vs AT debate.

Some prefer MT some prefer AT. Why can't it just be left at that? It's getting so old....Every thread turns into this stupid debate.

I would agree except this thread is about the Supra "killing" the Twins and since the Supra is only available (I will bet it will never change) in AT the debate is relevant to the topic.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Why? I mean, I much prefer MT personally, but it sure doesn't bother me that others may prefer AT.

I think the point wasn't that they prefer AT, but that they make silly excuses for AT with claims that it's engaging when it isn't. If they were really confident in their choice, they wouldn't have to make up nonsense about it being engaging. They would simply say, "I like automatics because I don't know how to drive a manual and want to be able to has cheezeburger and text on my phone instead of paying attention to when to shift. That's my choice, so screw you."

My BRZ is at the dealership to fix an oil leak before the warranty runs out (97K miles--just in time!), so I'm driving a loaner Impreza with those silly paddle shifters. I've been playing with them. They are absolutely no substitute for a real manual transmission. People who say they are instantly mark themselves as having no idea whatsoever what they're talking about. I'm sure having paddle shifters is more fun than not having them, but characterizing them as being as engaging as a manual is like insisting you don't bother having sex with other people because masturbation is just as good.