Suing Toyota over Warranty Issue (Synchros)

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Chronology

Do you HONESTLY believe that? It sounds like that last post I saw on here about someone doing a warranty claim with a dealer and said the same shit.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Do I believe what? That HPDE's aren't racing?

Abso-fucking-lutely!

Posts like these two illustrate why OP 1) will not win without a lawyer, and 2) need to take this thread and the videos down.

[neroman98]

Originally Posted by Chronology

@Darkiv posted in a thread about the Magnuson-Moss Act. "They cannot deny a warranty claim unless they can prove that whatever your modification was regardless of if it was done to the transmission or not caused the issue. And they have to prove it, not just say it." Act

Follow up question since I didn't have time to watch your videos at work -

1. What parts/mods did they say caused the failure?
2. What part do they say is failed? My specific issue (I think) is with the 4-5 / 5-6 single cone syncro.

The comment I made, (4k left on my 36k warranty) initially was: I am having issues/resistance/grinding when trying to up shift into 5th with anything over 4k RPM AND/OR down shifting from 6th into 5th at any appropriate RPM, I told them that I did a trans/diff flush and and replaced with OE+ fluids but the issue persisted over 2k miles before I took it to them.

The SA at the dealer knew my car was modded, and told me they where tuner friendly, (a majority of tech's have STI's modded) but not to BS them. He also stated to me that no way was my car powerful enough to bang on 4th/5th/6th at a track/HPDE event or freeway pulls.

As of today, I am 4 business days with my car at the dealer. The master tech who's working on it is awaiting a tech call, the master tech even told me that he was going to replace all 4 of my coil packs because coil pack 1 was going bad (Apparently I eat cylinder 1 coils like breakfast - I am on my 3rd) I was advised to visit the dealer tomorrow (Day 5) and request a loaner car until my repairs where completed.

How that tech call goes, I have no idea. The SA said that the master tech working on it, basically types up all then notes and then someone at Subaru NA will be the final decision on what needs to be replaced or repaired.

I think a few factors go into getting support from a dealer:

1. As the customer, being calm, collective and respectful with SA's get you HUGE points. Don't walk in with you go-pro and your "crew" thinking that your mommy and daddy own the place.

2. Not being pushy with SA/Tech/Dealership. Shit takes time, your not the only person in line.

In the last 4 days I called once. Day 4 just to get a status update.

3. Understanding the dealerships role, your role as a client and everything in-between.

While many argue this car is/isnt "track use" or have videos/ad's showing the car with mods/track days. You have to understand that its a Sales/Marketing technique. If you take a brand new 86, do a ton of mods that Subaru cannot say 100% it will "work with the car" then drive it like you stole it and post it all over the Internet. Well, sorry I don't feel bad. This is where social media screws young people. All the shit you put online is online forever. I mean come on, you don't see TJ Hunt going to a Subaru dealer asking for service do you?

There is a HUGE line between sales/marking and the physical build/intended use of the car. If you want an OE track car, buy a Porsche CUP car and ask what type of support you get. NONE. I think Ferrari FXX is the only customer facing car that does come with support, but you cant drive that on the road nor will Ferrari let you keep it at home. I am sure they have more unique cars that may have race setups from the OEM side, I just don't have the money to know about them

I hope it all works our for you and anyone else in the same boat (myself included), I also hope you have your expectations in order. The real world has a nasty stick it will be happy to beat you with in life.

This is a lot, so I will try to address everything you said as best I can:

1. They listed every mod I have: headers, wheels, tires, coils, exhaust, race seat, even stripped interior, but their main argument was the track time.
2. Specifically stated, the issue is the 4th gear synchro. The rest are fine. The grind happens in high RPMs, no matter how quick or slowly I shift. The deciding factor is the speed as to if it will grind or not.

Regarding the section about the Porsche CUP car and such, I am realistic, and I would accept responsibility for any damage done by me and my track time/modifications. Say the coilovers gave out and the car spun out, I would not dare enter a dealership, let alone expect a warranty related fix. But because this issue is a common issue in our transmissions and it can be concluded that it was not my fault. That is why I am taking these actions to have the issue remedied.

I'm realistic, I understand that there's a chance I will be SOL and will be paying for this transmission myself. But since there's a chance that I could win and have this issue paid for by the company that's at fault, I don't see why I shouldn't try, and that's where I am. Thanks for your help.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by neroman98

I should have gotten rid of the videos, you are right, but this is the situation I'm left with. Regarding publicly commenting on the case, I am not putting any of the evidence I will be using against them online, I am simply trying to gain support and collect evidence.

Thank you for your concern, and I will make sure to be weary of what I post or say about the case online, but I need to use public outlets like this to gather the evidence.

I will just cut the chase. There is no transmission quality/design problem with transmission. And you are just working against yourself. Based on your OP and comments above, you have already convinced me without any doubt that it is your fault. I don't think you have any chance in the court.

[neroman98]

Originally Posted by bababooey

OP, when going to 4th, does shifting a little sooner than redline or shifting a little slower resolve the grind you are experiencing?

unfortunately i suspect these transmissions will grind bone stock straight off the lot in the condition mentioned. but good luck with outcome.

Shifting slowly does not stop the issue if the RPMs are still high. This is a common issue but not "normal" as my car was diagnosed by a Toyota Rep as having a bad 4th gear synchro.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by neroman98

Shifting slowly does not stop the issue if the RPMs are still high. This is a common issue but not "normal" as my car was diagnosed by a Toyota Rep as having a bad 4th gear synchro.

Things like this can haunt you in a court of law:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odrijGp79t8"]Letting my friend drive the FRS... - YouTube[/ame]

From the 3:12 mark onward. You even admitted that there may be a clutch issue from the previous owner which may have masked transmission issue(s).

But yes, keep telling yourself that you need a thread like this to gather evidence. You're not the first person to want to do this and you won't be the last one to lose in a court of law, either. I've seen 25+ years of these "warranty" issues and at the end of the day, threats of a lawsuit really don't mean much when you have an entire YouTube channel dedicated to giving the defendant evidence to have this tossed in court.

-alex

[neroman98]

Originally Posted by mrg666

I will just cut the chase. There is no transmission quality/design problem with transmission. And you are just working against yourself. Based on your OP and comments above, you have already convinced me without any doubt that it is your fault. I don't think you have any chance in the court.

"pessimistic skeptic" is a fitting title.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=37129&page=7
Heres 7 pages of people discussing an identical problem to what I have, with many of them having their STOCK and NOT TRACKED cars covered under warranty. This problem, seeing how common it is, is a design flaw.

Thanks for your opinion, but if I have any chance of winning this case and having the party at fault held accountable for their design flaw, I don't see why not try.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by neroman98

"pessimistic skeptic" is a fitting title.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=37129&page=7
Heres 7 pages of people discussing an identical problem to what I have, with many of them having their STOCK and NOT TRACKED cars covered under warranty. This problem, seeing how common it is, is a design flaw.

Thanks for your opinion, but if I have any chance of winning this case and having the party at fault held accountable for their design flaw, I don't see why not try.

Have you even spoken to a lawyer? You are burying yourself even deeper with every single post.
It doesn't matter what other people have said this is not a class action suit jut you and your car against the largest automaker in the world.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by neroman98

"pessimistic skeptic" is a fitting title.

Isn't it?
I wish you the best.

[Silver Supra]

Originally Posted by neroman98

... I am not putting any of the evidence I will be using against them online, I am simply trying to gain support and collect evidence.

Thank you for your concern, and I will make sure to be weary of what I post or say about the case online, but I need to use public outlets like this to gather the evidence.

Forget about evidence you plan to use against them. What you are doing is providing evidence for Toyota to use against you.

You could have posted a tech question about the problem and asked for PMs from people that have the issue. But now, all the "evidence" Toyota needs to reject your claim is out there and cannot be recalled.
Sorry.

As to the banter about HPDE's and racing, of course HPDE events struggle without exception to stress it is not racing because no prizes, etc, as strat posted. However, I agree a small claims court judge will likely not buy into the nuance and is still likely to call it abuse beyond what the warranty was intended.

I have an interest in this because I knew when I started track days, HPDEs, etc., back in 2003/4 that I was on my own and whatever happened, happened at my expense. Oh sure, you can buy limited insurance but you pay one way or the other, and it would not cover what you are claiming.

I have no emojis to add.........

[stevesnj]

Some reading and viewing material...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119248

I have gone back and forth with some on here, in a debating way. YES this car is advertised to take to the track when NOT used in a competitive way. You will find MANY advertisements stating this car was made to take to the track. It even has a "Track" Mode in the 2017 model! Is that a tease. You have it but don't take it to the track? Here's what happened when someone was denied warranty and the dealer was looking at her on YouTube. Anyway I digress, I wouldn't of posted a detailed video like you did but it's too late. If you dig a bit there is material out there from Scion and Toyota about using this car on the track. I did however contact Toyota corporate about this issue and they at first didn't know what to say about warranty claims after failure during Non-competitive use. Ultimately after a few turn arounds she stated "It's ultimately up to the servicing dealer if hey will honor the warranty work". So suing Toyota may not help but suing the dealer may get you closer to your desired outcome. Maybe a 50/50 cost split? Anyway good luck and you are fighting and setting a precedent whatever the outcome. My opinion is clear. Some may not agree but that's okay. That's their right. But hey, why not try? :P

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=21

Here's the original article, this may help you. You never know .

http://jalopnik.com/subaru-dealershi...-ow-1796073277

Many vids of Tetsuya Tada not only talking about taking the car on the track but having the interview at a track!

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...y=tetsuya+tada

Plenty of videos on Scion's YouTube Channel about the FR-S

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...4E8D5E1EB1F2FC

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by neroman98

'm realistic, I understand that there's a chance I will be SOL and will be paying for this transmission myself. But since there's a chance that I could win and have this issue paid for by the company that's at fault.

I would't try to find fault in their engineering but fight for the warranty coverage instead, way better chance that way. If Toyota or the dealer can use you're videos as evidence against, especially launch control, which I don't think affects 4th gear, your sunk probably.

Either way this will be entertaining to find out what happened...

[lazyluka]

Instead of wasting money (and time) to sue Toyota, why not spend it fixing your 4th gear synchro instead?

I am sure you can have it repaired for a lot less than $10K.

Also, the definition in the warranty/insurance booklets goes along the lines of:
"was being used for competitions or off-road activity"
Therefore all events at a track fall into that category even if it wasn't "racing"

[perryair]

not to downplay op's situation but how on earth is any part of a tranny rebuild/replace cost 10k? id imagine that if you had to pay to rebuild the entire block it should cost that or maybe less?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by lazyluka

Instead of wasting money (and time) to sue Toyota, why not spend it fixing your 4th gear synchro instead?

I am sure you can have it repaired for a lot less than $10K.

Also, the definition in the warranty/insurance booklets goes along the lines of:
"was being used for competitions or off-road activity"
Therefore all events at a track fall into that category even if it wasn't "racing"

Yep, I agree. I suggest you either have the transmission rebuilt or buy a new one. Then, if you want to continue to hammer on it ...... budget for yet another one.




humfrz