P&L Header prototype

[uspspro]

+1 .... fill us in man!

[Captain Insano]

When I was at p&l in early January Paul described how he was going to design the header and it sounded very promising. Looks like that design description is living up to my dreams!!!

Btw... he stores his in the winter so that is why u haven't heard much about his brz. Just wait a coupla months...

[Dimman]

I think I've got a bit better idea of what I'm looking at.

The chart is starting at ~3k rpm, and we are seeing half of the 'shift' of the valley that headers tend to produce. The header is probably under performing stock under the dyno cut-off, so we're not seeing the full normal shape.

Not that it isn't a perfectly acceptable compromise to trade boring low rpm torque for much more useful mid-range.

[Captain Insano]

There is no "stock" in that dyno. The very lowest already has a complete header back exhaust. Considering that I think the middle an top lines are pretty good. No loss anywhere and big gains in midrange and high end. Don't read much into the power at start of runs. That has a lot to do with throttle modulation just before WOT.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

There is no "stock" in that dyno. The very lowest already has a complete header back exhaust. Considering that I think the middle an top lines are pretty good. No loss anywhere and big gains in midrange and high end. Don't read much into the power at start of runs. That has a lot to do with throttle modulation just before WOT.

Sorry, over baseline (headerback).

However, I'm pretty sure this chart starts at 3000ish rpm, and there will a corresponding loss in the lower rpm (less important) area.

The dyno pic is vague for a reason...

[Captain Insano]

I agree that it must start at 3k-ish. Runs start at around 3250 or so. Not sure that is intentionally hiding a power dip versus coincidence, but we will know soon enough.

[Hawaiian]

First off, Sorry for no response today, I've been at work all day and have no computer access, so I will try to clear up everything I can here. I know we all remember a certain other questionable dyno from the past, and it's nothing like that here.

To make sure everything is transparent, I have no financial interest in P&L. The first I had heard of them was back when they were first making their exhaust, and since I lived near there I dropped in. After Paul and I spoke for a while and I experienced their exhaust in person, we came to an agreement. They wanted a manual to use, and I wanted parts. I get nothing for free.

I give my input where I can, but since they are more experienced than I am, It's mostly I like this,or I don't. Simple stuff really.

Now, On to the questions...

Originally Posted by LeeMaster

Its a good thing the dip has been almost completely eliminated, but the thing that concerns me is the powerloss in the midrange. Hopefully the final product addresses that issue. Looking forward to more good things from P&L

(I'm paraphrasing) from Paul: His feeling with the way the car "breathes" it will be fairly difficult to get more out of the 5000-6000 range without boost.

Originally Posted by post_break

Before anyone shits their pants, this is useless without seeing the X and Y axis to see what is really going on.

That photo over engine speed. I'm sorry, I took a bad, rushed photo that I cropped because my full name/personal info was listed in the dyno run file names, and didn't want that blasted on the internet. It wasn't their idea it was mine. They initially didn't want photos out because of speculation, but after taking that one, they agreed to let me use it.

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

So, what's the secret bro? How's the header blowing every other one away? That down-low torque is insane.

With the lines it's partial tune, and partial header. The combo just really worked well. Also, the chart started at about 3k rpm. The pulls were done in 4th, and that's where it was when the guy doing the runs made the shift.

Originally Posted by Dimman

How long until we get some not completely vague info to go along with what could be one of the most epic (and terrible at the same time) NA dyno charts in FT86 history.

I'm a bit skeptical given what we think we're seeing and what we're used to seeing in the valley.

Again, I also remember some bad dyno charts from the past. This is my car, and I was there for every step. I can't 100% say they didn't change anything, but I would stake my reputation that the numbers are good. As I said above, we did 3 pulls in 4th and took the best of the 3 on each run. The first was stock flash, with P&L header back, the second 3 runs were with the header added, and the final was with the @Visconti tune. The ECU was cleared before each run, and you could see the computer learn after each pull increasing HP and TQ.

This was just a testing run, so yes, the data is incomplete. I'm going to be driving with the header until monday, and then run a few more dynos. They will then take it off my car and I will test the Catted version later

Originally Posted by Dimman

I think I've got a bit better idea of what I'm looking at.

The chart is starting at ~3k rpm, and we are seeing half of the 'shift' of the valley that headers tend to produce. The header is probably under performing stock under the dyno cut-off, so we're not seeing the full normal shape.

Not that it isn't a perfectly acceptable compromise to trade boring low rpm torque for much more useful mid-range.

^This. Next time I will see if they can start the run at a lower RPM for everyone on the official pulls.

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

I agree that it must start at 3k-ish. Runs start at around 3250 or so. Not sure that is intentionally hiding a power dip versus coincidence, but we will know soon enough.

There's nothing being hidden. I actually have no clue how it performs below 3k on a dyno, because that's where they just recorded it. You can see from the chart the engine speed cut out durring the dyno. It's not the cleanest, but this was a personal photo I had put up, and not part of their official release. It's still in the testing phase.

More about the "plan" from talking to Paul. The header will fit into their turbo kit. If you buy it, they will offer you a reduced price on the turbo upgrade. What the price is, I don't know. I didn't ask.

Someone had asked, and I had mentioned it, there will be Catted and Uncatted versions.

Why are they having more results than other Headers? The design is a little different than what I have seen from others. Paul did forbid me from taking photos of it just yet, and it's their IP, but think alien facehugger.

If you have any other questions, I will answer them to the best of my ability. If I am unable to, I will ask P&L directly.

-Rob

[Hawaiian]

One more thing: My review I can say right now, my review won't be 100% blowing smoke up.....you know the rest. There are things I really like, and things I don't like with the Header. I will be as truthful and honest as I can be when finishin my review.

[Captain Insano]

I never thought he or his shop were intentionally hiding anything for the record - just was speaking to Dimman's questions. I've had work done by P&L/Paul on various cars of mine dating back to 2006. He is a good guy.

The final dynos will speak for themselves and I would also think eventually if there are questions people have about the headers that OP cannot answer that somebody from P&L will come on the forum here and answer the questions. If you go to their web page or if you have seen cars with P&L parts, they make quality stuff and do great custom stuff as well.

[Hawaiian]

On a side note, if anyone in Chicago want's to feel the car in person, I will be at the auto show tomorrow am when it opens. For the most part i am open to fellow enthusiast behind the wheel.

[Hawaiian]

Due to unforeseen circumstances we weren't able to get the car on the dyno Monday. It has been rescheduled to Friday. Stay tuned.

[Jive Turkey]

staying tuned we are!

any ETA on this header. seems like everyone is working on a header and nothing is available but we all have money ready!!!!

[P&L Motorsports]

You'll have to wait for Paul for an official post, but here is something in the interim.


(Cursor highlight set at 4000rpm)


-Dylan@P&L

[naikaidriver]

Holy crap! That torque curve is incredibly flat!

My hat is off to you and Visconti! Looks like I will be reserving some funds for the both of you!

I apologize if this is premature but;
- When will this header be available?
- Wiii this header mate up to most header-back exhausts or will we be reserved to use yours?

Thanks guys!

Scott