Why doesn't traction/stability control actually turn off?

[Ashikabi]

So you said the traction control sent you into oncoming traffic... Not that you were spinning first. You changing your story or what?

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

So you said the traction control sent you into oncoming traffic... Not that you were spinning first. You changing your story or what?

here's a few cases where I have told the story (does it look like I have changed my story?):

Originally Posted by stugray

I have >30 years experience driving rear-wheel-drive cars (without TC or ABS) in the snow. In my entire Life I have never owned a set of snow tires UNTIL NOW.

I took my BRZ out in the beginning of a snow storm on the stock tires.
It was PURE LUCK that I did make it home.
I disabled the TC/VSC system before I left and when IT RE_ENABLED ITSELF at 50 MPH on the highway, it spun the car directly into oncoming traffic.
If the car coming straight at me had not been able to go around me on the shoulder it would have totalled both of our cars.

DO NOT TAKE THESE CARS OUT IN THE SNOW WITH THE STOCK TIRES. PERIOD. EVER. PERIOD.



The Primacys might as well be made out of granite below 40 deg F.

Originally Posted by stugray

Sorry but - DO NOT DRIVE ON THE STOCK PRIMACY HPs in the SNOW - EVER

I have lived my entire life in Colorado and have NEVER chenged my tires from summer to winter tires.
I have always used All-season tires (so 30 years snow experinece, NEVER with snow tires).

SO I thought it would be the same with this car.
I drove out of my neighborhood one day in the snow and about 1 degree above freezing.
I did brake checks and steering checks before pulling out onto a freeway.

Then SPUN the car completely into oncoming traffic on the freeway.
It was partially the fault of the TC/VSC system, but the zero grip from the tires was the initial cause.

Never again - The Primacy HPs turn into polished granite below about 35 degrees...

I now have Hankook Winters and I can drive circles around some 4WD cars out there.

Originally Posted by stugray

Reposted from another thread:

"I had a fun experience just yesterday.

Flash snow barely sticking to the streets but right about 30 degrees outside. I have stock tires.
Based on everyone's suggestions on these forums, since it was slightly snowy, I'd try with nannies off.
When driving through the neighboorhood, the car was fine, no spinning tires, no slipping, no problem. I even do a couple of "brake checks" to asses the road conditions.

So I get out of the neighborhood, and turning to merge onto a 50 MPH highway Ouside of the neighborhood is wide open farmland. This highway borders houses on one side farmland on the other.
I turn into the merge lane and begin accelerating, no slipping, i get up to ~35 (speed of traffic) and begin to merge. As I get carefully on the throttle, the ass begins to slide out to the left.
I know better than to over compensate by lifting too hard, but as soon as I lift at all, the car pendulums into a complete 180 slide (ASS TO THE RIGHT) INTO ONCOMING traffic!
So I lay on the brakes depending on the ABS and the car stops facing exactly backwards in the oncoming lane of traffic.

the one car coming at me missed me by about 1 inch by passing on the shoulder.

So what happened? I believe that the weather was right at the point of the roads beginning to freeze.
In the neighboorhood, the wind was kept higher because of the houses.
As soon as I got on the county road (farmland) the wind had cooled the road to the point of freezing."

And now to the point of your question:

I believe that the traction control kicked in applying the brakes and cutting the throttle which caused the abrupt snap-in oversteer.

I am confident that IF THE DAMN THING WAS COMPLETELY DISABLED I WOULD NOT HAVE SPUN!!!

It would have REALLY sucked since I recently discoverd that my car is likely the very first production BRZ in the US.

WHEN did the lights first start blinking? I dont know because I was kind of busy.....

[Ashikabi]

You dug up all those posts just for me? What a nice guy. Maybe if you have so many problems with your traction control being off you should just leave it on

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Asshole

You dug up all those posts just for me? What a nice guy. Maybe if you have so many problems with your traction control being off you should just leave it on

MAYBE you should learn how to read,
AND maybe how to operate the "Quote" features (come on it's not too hard).

And I am one of the people on this forum that advocates leaving your traction control on at all times unless you are in questionable snow conditions

In fact in that situation I am positive that IF I HAD left it on it would have intervened sooner and not taken over abruptly which caused the spin.

You still never answered the question: "DID you READ the ENTIRE thread?"

I guess all those other people who have had similar experiences are full of shit.

[Stang70Fastback]

All I'm getting out of this argument is that Stu thinks you have to hold both buttons down when you only have to hold one of them :P

#fueltothefire

[Ashikabi]

I don't want to use the quote function. I did not read the entirety of any thread. Nor did I ever claim to have

[atledreier]

When I disable the TCS by holding the "off" button until both light engage, I have never had the TCS re-engage even briefly. I've done some weird manouvers and never had it reengange, including spinning at high speed on track.

What I have had happen is the slip light come on when the ECU detect a wheel in the air and thus disabling the brake bias control. That is easy to trigger by driving up a ramp at an angle.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by atledreier

When I disable the TCS by holding the "off" button until both light engage, I have never had the TCS re-engage even briefly. I've done some weird manouvers and never had it reengange, including spinning at high speed on track.

What I have had happen is the slip light come on when the ECU detect a wheel in the air and thus disabling the brake bias control. That is easy to trigger by driving up a ramp at an angle.

I experimented last night in the rain.
With the 3 sec hold on the button, (both dash lights lit), I could not get the dash lights to even blink when getting it sideways.
Maybe the snow can confuse the systems enough to think that a wheel has lifted (like your example), but under 95% of driving cases the system manages it just fine.
I am positive I can get it to do it again but I'll have to wait for winter to come around....

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stugray

I experimented last night in the rain.
With the 3 sec hold on the button, (both dash lights lit), I could not get the dash lights to even blink when getting it sideways.
Maybe the snow can confuse the systems enough to think that a wheel has lifted (like your example), but under 95% of driving cases the system manages it just fine.
I am positive I can get it to do it again but I'll have to wait for winter to come around....

Happened to me too Stu. Story is buried way back in a thread someplace.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by stugray

I experimented last night in the rain.
With the 3 sec hold on the button, (both dash lights lit), I could not get the dash lights to even blink when getting it sideways.
Maybe the snow can confuse the systems enough to think that a wheel has lifted (like your example), but under 95% of driving cases the system manages it just fine.
I am positive I can get it to do it again but I'll have to wait for winter to come around....

If it's a lifting wheel that causes it, then that would explain why it's only happened to me on the snow. During my ice racing runs, I was moving relatively slowly, at quite a sideways angle, and with a LOT of wheelspin, so it's entirely possible that the car mistook all that free-wheeling for a tire in the air. In any event, the slip light WILL come on and blink furiously even after holding the TCS button for 3 seconds, if you're hooning the car hard enough.

[pinski]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

If it's a lifting wheel that causes it, then that would explain why it's only happened to me on the snow. During my ice racing runs, I was moving relatively slowly, at quite a sideways angle, and with a LOT of wheelspin, so it's entirely possible that the car mistook all that free-wheeling for a tire in the air. In any event, the slip light WILL come on and blink furiously even after holding the TCS button for 3 seconds, if you're hooning the car hard enough.

Still jelly that you got to go ice racing - that looked like so much fun!

[Stang70Fastback]

You should be jelly. It was even more fun than it looked :P

[BRZ21]

there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. I'm still deciding whether or not I'm going to get myself involved or not.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by BRZ21

there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. I'm still deciding whether or not I'm going to get myself involved or not.