09-03-2019, 10:05 AM | #337 | |
1st86 Driver!
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,811
Thanks: 38,816
Thanked 24,935 Times in 11,375 Posts
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Also, his insistence that the Mustang be called a sedan could apply to a lot of front engine cars. The definition of a sedan is a closed body car that has a 3 box configuration (one for engine, one for passengers and one for trunk in that order). That's just about any "pony car" as well as the 86. It would not apply to most hatches, but even some of them have a trunk "box" with the rear seat up.
__________________
Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark. What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk". |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post: | Dirty Harry (09-03-2019), korhun (09-04-2019) |
09-03-2019, 10:17 AM | #338 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: 2014 BRZ Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 4,045
Thanks: 1,100
Thanked 5,618 Times in 2,266 Posts
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
|
09-03-2019, 10:40 AM | #339 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,584
Thanks: 1,376
Thanked 3,890 Times in 2,032 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Also, improved crash standards can be met without increased weight because of advances in design, materials, etc. FT86 weighs about the same as an S13 240SX, which was the late-80s/early-90s FT86. Last edited by ZDan; 09-03-2019 at 10:58 AM. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post: | why? (09-04-2019) |
09-03-2019, 10:53 AM | #340 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Drives: 22 BRZ limited MT
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 113
Thanks: 96
Thanked 115 Times in 45 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/03/...#slide-1354623
Via Autoblog according to Japan's "Best Car" magazine . . . It's assumed Toyota's global platform will be the new base, still projected to use Subaru's FA24 sans turbo and projecting a 12 to 15 bump in horsepower with assumed "greater" torque gains. |
09-03-2019, 11:10 AM | #341 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: 2014 BRZ Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 4,045
Thanks: 1,100
Thanked 5,618 Times in 2,266 Posts
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
One, language evolves. Old words drop out of usage. New words come into being. Existing words shift meaning or change altogether. Merriam-Webster made 850 changes to their English dictionary in 2018 alone. He says the definition of a sports car didn't change, that the cars did. The definition of a sports car most definitely did change, because the cars did. That's the way a living language works. We had sports cars. The cars changed. The classification stayed with them to include the changes, even if the SCCA couldn't keep up. What we learn from those changes is that the traits we thought defined the sports car--two seats, convertible--actually didn't define it. Does turning the MGB into a GT change the essential character of the car? Of course not. "GT" was simply a subset of the sports car class. We figured out in the '60s that a sports car was a performance-oriented vehicle whose early examples just happened to have drop tops and two seats but whose more recent examples didn't. The language adapted to match reality. Mustangs and Camaros also changed, but they didn't change into sports cars. They're still pony cars. As with sports cars, their name just changed with them. Pony cars have gotten lighter and have shifted emphasis from straight line performance to handling, but that doesn't make them sports cars. They still retain some undefinable essence that differentiates them. I often argue that there's no such thing as a front wheel drive sports car. That's not because of any specific definition. It's because I grew up driving sports cars, and a FWD vehicle feels fundamentally different from a RWD vehicle. RWD is part of a sports car's essential character. Changing an MGB from a convertible to a GT doesn't change the essential character of the car, but making it a FWD certainly would. The second flaw is in his silly example of why it's important to get the classifications correct. He says you wouldn't describe a kidnapper's Audi A7 sedan to the police as a coupe. Okay, I'll buy that. People would describe it as what it is, a sedan. Or they'd just say it was an Audi, or some foreign four door. If the kidnapper were driving a BRZ instead, how many people would describe it to the police as a GT? None. Nobody would describe it that way to police. They would describe it as what it is, a sports car. If they did call it a GT, how many police would even understand what they were trying to say? "You mean a Mustang GT? A Dodge Durango GT?" Once the cop figured out what the hell you were trying to say, he'd respond, "Oh, you mean a sports car." The distinction between sports car and GT is imaginary and meaningless. |
|
09-03-2019, 11:40 AM | #342 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,584
Thanks: 1,376
Thanked 3,890 Times in 2,032 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Pony cars have gotten heavier. Original pony car was the 1964 Mustang, <3000 lb with a V8. The Mustang has gone WAY up and down in weight over the years, but for *many* years it undercut the Corvette on weight by about 100 lb. Then in the mid-90s they went to the "modular" engine which added a fair amount of weight, and then in the mid 2000s they went from "pony" car to big bloated muscle car imo... And the latest iteration actually went further UP in weight, now 3800+ lb. Camaro/Firebird were GM's "pony cars", and for most of their lives they were only about 100 lb. heavier vs. the Corvette. Discontinued in 2002, then we got a new Camaro that followed the new Mustang approach of way bigger and way heavier. The latest "lighter" version is still >3750 lb. for a V8, a good 350 lb. over the old smaller, lighter-weight F-bodies which were generally ~3400 lb. vs. the Corvette at ~3300. Also, handling was a pony car trait from the get-go, witness GT350 1st-gen Mustangs and Z/28 1st-gen Camaro, also Trans Am, AAR 'Cuda and Challenger T/A, etc. Mid-80s IROC-Z Camaro was declared "best-handling American car" at one point by Car and Driver. Ideally, for me, the new "pony cars" *should* be a lot less like ginormous 2-door sedans and a lot more like V8 versions of the FT86! |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post: | extrashaky (09-03-2019), gravitylover (09-03-2019) |
09-03-2019, 11:49 AM | #343 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S Series 10
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,116
Thanks: 600
Thanked 1,017 Times in 512 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
If they do show a concept car, people will need to bite their tongues and not get overly excited. It will likely be little more than a design exercise with a marketing slant towards "inspired by advancements made by Supra," with the main goal of focusing attention by to Supra. You won't get a single detail other then confirmation that it is still RWD and still has a manual. You will still have 2-3 years before it shows up in dealer lots, unless they are literally just swapping the engine and doing another mild facelift. In that case, it could come much more quickly since they won't have to retool the production line. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to mazeroni For This Useful Post: | Yoshoobaroo (09-03-2019) |
09-03-2019, 11:53 AM | #344 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: 2014 BRZ Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 4,045
Thanks: 1,100
Thanked 5,618 Times in 2,266 Posts
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
1. Car and Driver was populated by morons if they thought that car would out-handle a Corvette, and 2. American cars in general didn't handle very well in the '80s. |
||
The Following User Says Thank You to extrashaky For This Useful Post: | Tcoat (09-03-2019) |
09-03-2019, 01:35 PM | #345 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: '15 BRZ RA
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,787
Thanks: 2,416
Thanked 1,944 Times in 1,261 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Yes the Supra is quite heavy, but it is also another category car. Much more in the grand tourer category. Subaru on the other side is quite an expert in the area of chassis and materials technology. Not a coincidence that they are building Boeing's 777X wings. Toyota was quite on the spot that they should build together an entry level performance and low cost lightweight sports car. Much more focused on handling than anything else.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to nikitopo For This Useful Post: | JesseG (09-04-2019) |
09-03-2019, 01:39 PM | #346 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2495 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post: | Yoshoobaroo (09-03-2019) |
09-03-2019, 07:05 PM | #347 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 2013 BRZ Satin White Pearl
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 632
Thanks: 580
Thanked 673 Times in 330 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Here is an article from motoring.com.au that you might enjoy https://www.motoring.com.au/how-aggr...age-505468121/ |
|
09-03-2019, 07:28 PM | #348 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: 2014 BRZ Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 4,045
Thanks: 1,100
Thanked 5,618 Times in 2,266 Posts
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
|
09-03-2019, 07:57 PM | #349 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 2013 BRZ Satin White Pearl
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 632
Thanks: 580
Thanked 673 Times in 330 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
|
09-03-2019, 08:00 PM | #350 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Drives: 2002 VX Commodore SS LS1 Auto
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 500
Thanked 2,185 Times in 1,111 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Call them what you like, the only type that really matters is the type your car sits in competing in motorsport events.
Everything else is ego masturbation.
__________________
Disclaimer: This post represents the official views of the voices in my head at the time of posting.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133311 I'm only here for the biscuits |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
I'd read it was possible but here is confirmation | Bodalenko | AUSTRALIA | 22 | 09-14-2015 08:57 PM |
Part confirmation | SubaSteve | Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing | 0 | 05-25-2014 06:15 PM |
Pioneer AVIC-X940BT confirmation | FR-Shadow | Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment | 35 | 11-29-2012 05:08 PM |
Confirmation BRZ nav can play DVDs | R0ME0 | Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment | 21 | 11-14-2012 07:25 PM |
Driver side controls confirmation please | phanguy | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 2 | 07-31-2012 03:17 AM |