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Old 06-20-2019, 01:51 PM   #15
churchx
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Water has different weight and viscosity and also most probably it's pumped in at different speeds/pressure then what oil will be in working engine. Not sure this test result matters much and not sure one should do changes according "observed results" of it. Unless one has clear knowledge/data how to correlate results if it had been oil, oil at specific temps, and pumped with pump at specific rpms/pressure/flow, as otherwise it doesn't differ that much from guesswork anyway.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:14 PM   #16
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Your probably right just because it flows more water doesnt mean it flow more oil. I really was just washing the aluminum chips out and noticed that alot of the water was going out 5.

When I tore the motor down I was surprised that #4 rod bearing was perfect but it's the furthest from the oil supply.

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Old 06-20-2019, 07:02 PM   #17
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solidsnake11: Way i see potential problem - given finite amount of oil and at specific pressure pumped, imho there is chance to mistakenly give "too much" oiling for some paths/bearings .. resulting in opposite, oil starvation, where there was sufficient in stock. I don't have any expertise, i don't have knowledge/experience/budget/means to experiment and get objective data like toyobaru engineers did (and so did probably eg. king bearing vendor), so i'd probably be much more cautious when doing mods based just on hunch / how it "seems to me" it should be better. Eg. even if enlarging some oil paths, then only relatively very slightly, and so on.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:57 PM   #18
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Accusump to increase oil pressure in a jam?
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:02 PM   #19
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I have spent around 40 hours researching crossdrilled crankshafts, bearing failure and feeding two rods with one main. If I spin number 1 or number 4 bearing without hurting 2 and 3 I would consider it a success.
My motor wasn't in the best of shape when I got it. Whomever put it together had pryde it open at some bad spots. It also had a short valve head on one side and a long valve on the other. I also found an oil leak on one of the tensioner that I did not catch the first rebuild. Looked as though somebody had hit it with a hammer.

I'm just trying to keep the rod bearings in it. May I ask what your cure is for the 2 3 rod bearing failure is because I would love to put this thing together, turn it 9000rpm and open this gt4202 up to 20 lbs of boost. Then I can start building a bellhousing for the cd09 transmission.

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Old 06-21-2019, 11:33 AM   #20
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element tuning solved the problem, but they keep it an industry secret for them.

you can read about what problems they found here http://elementtuning.com/competition...r-wrx-fa20dit/

and they call out pressure problems

"What happens to oil pressure when you increase the oil port size? What happens to you oil volume requirements when you need to feed two journals with one main? Guess which one failed?"

there is a thread here about it too, where they talk about their problems https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63723
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:15 PM   #21
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element tuning solved the problem, but they keep it an industry secret for them.

you can read about what problems they found here http://elementtuning.com/competition...r-wrx-fa20dit/

and they call out pressure problems

"What happens to oil pressure when you increase the oil port size? What happens to you oil volume requirements when you need to feed two journals with one main? Guess which one failed?"

there is a thread here about it too, where they talk about their problems https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63723
Yes read it the first rebuild and posted all mods I did at that time 15mm pump, ported front cover, ported pickup, driver head restrictor, ported block feed, thicker port plate, 30 row oil cooler with it's own pump and 2jz pick up screen.
Like I said earlier number 3 main feeds 2 3 rod but the bearing has the same amount of holes, the groove in the block under the bearing is the same and the hole through the crank is the same.

The crank is a pump also it's a centrifugal pump that pulls oil up the crank to the rods but the mains work against this force on a cross drilled crank.

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Old 06-21-2019, 10:41 PM   #22
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Please excuse the weld the motor was in the car. Had to take the pan off adjust pickup re tack and try again wound up a little short and had to fill the gaps. But it can hold alot more silicone before it clogs up compared to the oem. lol
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:54 AM   #23
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solidsnake11: Way i see potential problem - given finite amount of oil and at specific pressure pumped, imho there is chance to mistakenly give "too much" oiling for some paths/bearings .. resulting in opposite, oil starvation, where there was sufficient in stock.
Quote:
Modification of Oil Hole Design for High Performance Bearings
The dimensions of the oil hole should provide a flow rate sufficient to compensate for the side leakage from both main and corresponding connecting rod bearings.
In other words, oil flow should be limited by side leakage and not by the oil hole.
Incompressible flow through an orifice (hole) may be expressed as follows:

References
[1] J.E. Shigley (1986), Mechanical engineering design, McGraw-Hill Book Company.
[2] Dmitri Kopeliovich (2011), The Proper Selection of Engine Bearing Materials, AERA., April-June 2011, p.48-62.
[3] Checking bearing calculation, Available from: http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Invento...6-Checking4226
interesting

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Old 06-27-2019, 11:39 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
element tuning solved the problem, but they keep it an industry secret for them.

you can read about what problems they found here http://elementtuning.com/competition...r-wrx-fa20dit/

and they call out pressure problems

"What happens to oil pressure when you increase the oil port size? What happens to you oil volume requirements when you need to feed two journals with one main? Guess which one failed?"

there is a thread here about it too, where they talk about their problems https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63723
Element and Phil are cool and all but remember, they themselves went dry sump before ls3 swapping their car a fews years back. IIRC their other car, the WRX is running a closed deck ej.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:01 PM   #25
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8an direct feed. This is filtered oil directly from the filter. Don't use a oil cooler adaptor unless it filters oil before it goes to the lines. I also grooved the crankshaft and drilled the oil hole through the crank to .250 on the number 3 main.

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Old 07-04-2019, 06:16 PM   #26
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I remember seeing how, in Phil's videos, oil pressure didn't just flatten out, but would rapidly drop off at the top. My gut said that it looked like some form of flutter taking over.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:24 AM   #27
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If it was only an oil pressure problem then all the rod bearings would wear. I'm pretty sure the the 3 main groove in the block is to small but there isnt enough room to make it larger. If you port it too the bearing shell holes you will get oil through the hole and the groove, without porting all has to go through the groove before going through the holes. The oil gallery that feeds the mains is also cast so it looks to taper from both ends, I would guess that it was to get the mandrel out(mold).
I do think the oil pump is to open on the inlet side causing turbulence from centrifugal force and a drop in oil pressure at high rpm. Most other pumps, oil enter from a hole and has no other way to go besides the high pressure side. Just imagine what the oil is doing at 100 revs per sec in the large open entrance and that's only 6000rpm

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Old 07-05-2019, 04:04 AM   #28
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Quote:
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If it was only an oil pressure problem then all the rod bearings would wear.
Could it not be that oil pressure is sufficient for all mains but #3 and that there is just insufficient pressure at high revs to supply all mains and that the most needy, #3, is the first to be short changed, so to speak. Each main, as I understand, creates the same resistance to flow at the bearing. The one that needs the most flow will need the most pressure to be sufficiently supplied. Considering that the engine produces much lower oil pressure measurements than most with no good reason to do so, I'm surprised you don't focus more on that element. But no doubt, reducing the resistance to flow at the bearing with the highest demand is not a bad idea either way.

I have enjoyed tracking your progress and I appreciate you sharing your research here. I look forward to hearing your results once you get the modified bearing engine back together.
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