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Old 02-11-2015, 01:28 PM   #15
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I would do this swap not based on cost but more so reliability and ease of maintanence. Going with the BEAMS engine eliminates the worries of DI seals burning up and AVCS failures some are plagued by. Servicing will be a walk in the park (sparkplugs!!!) and doing a turbo kit would be much easier as it will now hang off the side of the motor instead of coming from up and underneath as seen with the FA20. I've talked to a car builder about our FA20 and he has come to know these engines as being hit or miss. He told me that once the case has been split, all bets are off as tolerances are a 50/50 bet that they will be back in spec.

I just don't have much hope in the fa20. But it would be hard for me to rip apart a brand new car to do an extensive mod like this. A clapped out e30 shell would be more fitting to create a Frankenstein.
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:30 PM   #16
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i think this is something more nostalgic for us ex-Mr2 owners haha. i always wanted to do a beams red top but opted for a jdm 3sgte back then. this could be my 2nd chance to own my own beams! lol
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dustin@Dynosty View Post
- stock for stock is a good question, I haven't decided if I want to try and push it in stock form to see where it pops but from a block standpoint, a solid deck block will 100% out hold the power of a subaru open deck block.

- they do not come stock turbo, so its about the same cost to turbocharge either motor

- I haven't added it up yet to confirm, but no i believe the swap will cost less then what it would cost for an individual to to pay a shop to build an FA20 block.

- mine was 100% for the fun, but you are in the swap forum, so everyone in here could most likely make power in a way other than a swap but they are choosing to swap instead.
I'm dying to know, how does it handle now with 3sge swap compared to when the car had the fa20?

I bought my FRS 100% because of the handling. I would not want to do anything to compromise that.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:05 PM   #18
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I'm dying to know, how does it handle now with 3sge swap compared to when the car had the fa20?

I bought my FRS 100% because of the handling. I would not want to do anything to compromise that.
To be honest I haven't put enough time in on it to know just yet, I too bought my FRS solely for the handling. I normally park my toys in the winter so even bringing it out right now is pretty rare so I haven't been able to go beat on it in NA form. The motor sits as low as it can and as far back as it can. We have a suspension shop that we use up at work that has a corner balance scale setup so once it warms up I will weigh it and see if I can get another FRS to follow just to get an idea of the official changes. To be honest I don't think its going to throw the handling off dramatically enough that an average driver (myself included) will be able to tell. Now if you are at the track every weekend of every month and truly can tell what needs adjustment between your suspension and driving technique then you are better than me and maybe you will be able to notice. But what I have found is that 99% of drivers couldn't tell you apart from looking at it if a tire was down 10psi on one corner or if one shock isn't rebounding like the others. So they are not going to notice the shifted weight.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:57 PM   #19
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Oh man that would be awesome to get a comparison between both cars. I reckon it likely won't be anything drastic as well. It's not like it's a 2jz in there.

A quick ebay search led me to realize how cheap these engine/gearbox sets are. Literally like $1200 for both and they're litered all over ebay for around that price range.

How strong are the transmissions though? The weak link in the FRS is the gearbox. Does the BEAMS gearbox fair any better.

...I never researched the Altezza BEAMS much.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:05 PM   #20
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In all of the research I have done, I have come to the conclusion that most that have messed with the motor did so in a poor manner that it would not be accurate to use them as comparison of what a properly setup motor and transmission can handle. the S54 trans the NA mr2s get everyone claimed blew up at anything over 250tq, and I made 350tq+ for years on end of abuse with no failure. The NA 3sge (gen 2) everyone claimed wouldn't hold any power and I made 400+ whp for many years without issue. So I believe it takes a good shop to be able to tell the true limits of a motor and transmission and even when it breaks, the shop needs to be mechanically inclined enough that they can identify the true fault to understand how to not do it again. 90% of shops we see out there do not assemble motors in house, nor have the qualified technicians on hand should they even have the proper equipment to do it. Not tooting our own horn, but we have this all in house.

To bring that all full circle- motor I don't think 800whp is un attainable if built. The transmission however is an unknown factor. But as you said, they are cheap enough, I will try a few before looking at other transmission options.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:22 PM   #21
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See...........told ya. So who needs a low mile FA20? :-)
how about low mile boosted fa20...
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:32 PM   #22
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Well this is getting interesting. I want the BEAMS not for more power but for a engine I think is a reasonable alternative to the Suby flatty. I can build an I4 with no worries of it holding up or being weak. (Too many posts of engine problems with the twins).
I use it for a sports car and don't drift or track so no need for more power just get it to behave more like a Toyota should. And yes it is for the FUN of it.
So sign me up for a swap kit I'm in.
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:55 PM   #23
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I love the idea of this, but no way could I bring myself to do this on a running FR-S. I am not sure what to think of the fa20, but I can't accept that this motor is so horrible that a 20 yo motor is a much better option.

Now, if I could ever get my hands on a good shell, then all for it!!!!

Great work.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:48 PM   #24
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My main concern with a BEAMS swap would be parts availability. I did a timing belt and seals job on a customer's red top, and getting the parts took a minute. And my shop isn't exactly known for its lack of resources with regard to MR2s/3S-related things.

Granted, we got everything, and it wasn't like it took months, and it's not like it needs to be done every month, but it was more of a hassle than I'd care to deal with.

I'm anxious to see the boosted black top results, just for the sake of being able to bust a coworker's balls for dragging his ass on his idea for that motor.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:59 AM   #25
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Beams motor swaps are popular in NZ. I have one in my ae86. Mates have them in their cars. Just because you can't find info on google doesn't mean it doesnt exist.

I've had a couple of them, in various stages of build. Without spending hours writing a massive blurb. Here's some quick comments.

The motor fits in an ae86 without modding the bonnet
They make 200whp pretty easily NA. Add some itb's and a standalone and it'll get there.
The heads are fantastic and flow extremely well. You don't need to touch anything in the head, even when boosted. Although replacing the titanium valves with steel valves is advisable.
My built beams makes peak power at 8000rpm, it has stock cams.
I use a turbo common on sr20's. On the beams the turbo spools about 1000rpm sooner, and makes 400whp at 14psi. The same turbo on an sr20 needs 19psi to get to that figure.
The cranks I've never heard of one let go.
The rods are not the best, but will take 300whp or so. More than that, replace them.
It will fit in a gt86. The first thing I did when I got my gt86 was to measure and see if my spare beams would fit.
The j160 box is similar strength to the fa20 box.
You can get a bellhousing (I forget from what) that will allow you to bolt an r154 to the beams
The heads are different between the auto and manual trans, auto has smaller cams. Get the manual one. You can tell by the yellow sticker on the front of the motor. From memory G 1 and G3 are manual, G2 and G4 are auto. Can't remember exactly though, can check with a mate that'll know.
Unlike previous 3S motors, beams is interference.
Related to that, be careful when replacing pistons. Because of how much lift the valves have, and how much vvti can advance, they get super close. First guy here 5 or so years ago to start mucking round with these bent a few sets of valves before they got the piston design right. North Shore Toyota in NZ have some of these custom pistons in stock, CP pistons. They're what I'm running. Just because its not interference at idle, doesn't mean it wont be once vvti start advancing. To check this when building motor, put the cam 3 teeth out, which is 36 degrees, (vvti advances 35 from memory) so if that clears as well, means piston design is ok.

There's a couple of guys using them for endurance racing here. One is one season old, the other two seasons. Both are 450whp or so. Much more than 500whp in a race car and you need to sleeve them.

Oh another thing, if you replace the valve springs, don't use the hydraulic tensioner any more. Make a manual one. The oem tensioner isnt well matched to the increased valvetrain drag from the heavier springs. A couple of times when mine was getting run in the cambelt would skip teeth. Took us a little while to diagnose that it was the tensioner. Since its now manual tensioner it hasn't done it since.

Mine I use for drifting and I'm ruthless with it and it's never missed a beat. Prob done 15 events/days on it so far.

If you're interested in staying NA, a couple of guys have got them to 250whp. Full race motors though. Guy called Glen with one in a ra45 celica posts online in a few places. Google ra45 celica beams and some different forums should come up.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

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Old 02-13-2015, 10:04 AM   #26
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My main concern with a BEAMS swap would be parts availability. I did a timing belt and seals job on a customer's red top, and getting the parts took a minute. And my shop isn't exactly known for its lack of resources with regard to MR2s/3S-related things.

Granted, we got everything, and it wasn't like it took months, and it's not like it needs to be done every month, but it was more of a hassle than I'd care to deal with.

I'm anxious to see the boosted black top results, just for the sake of being able to bust a coworker's balls for dragging his ass on his idea for that motor.
It hasn't been too bad thus far, since it was/is not a popular motor state side there is very little aftermarket support but after I am done, we will have a source for just about everything you need to build them NA or Turbo. Yes the HKS timing belt took a while to get in but other than that everything else has been under 2 weeks. And I doubt anyone is swapping this motor or any other motor on a daily driver, this is my toy car so if it has to sit a while for this reason or another, no big deal.

I assume you are over at ATS? I talked to Aaron a while ago when he first got his car and we were talking boost options and can't recall if I ever let on that this was my plan or not.



Manji- thanks for the info, I have stumbled across the same info across a few threads on toymods and couple other places.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:30 PM   #27
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:52 PM   #28
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^ lol
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