Considering purchase for teenager

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by why?

These cars are great at winter and snow driving with the correct winter tires. Getting a 2015 or newer is the way to go since they ironed out all the odd little issues by then. These cars are a blast on track and off. And if you do get the modding bug the aftermarket is massive.

LOL, I hope I won’t.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Lots of great advice. My 1M will still be my track toy, but probably isn’t the best novice car. The BRZ wouldn’t be his, and my wife is pretty excited to have something fun to drive also. His daily driver is a well used Prius, and that will probably remain the case.

Just quoting this in particular because it's your last post.

Knowing how the N54 boost comes on (especially since you have it tuned) I would not have your son learn to drive the 1M on the track. You can sort of develop bad tendencies with how boost comes on with throttle control. Issue being you can lose a car real quick if boost decides to hit mid-corner...TC or not.

My first car was an E46 325xi. Awful car, 130k miles on it with worn dampers and all season tires. I only did autocross in it, but it was easy with crappy tires to experience threshold of grip and know the limits of the car.

I then bought an E86 M Coupe - Threw some Hankook RS3s on the car with a massive bar and continued to autocross and started hitting the track in that car. Being ~19-21 at the time I realized that speeds I was achieving (140ish at Mid-Ohio) were too much for me and I was kind of scared of bundling the car. I pushed past my comfort zone.

Bought a E82 128i and prep'd it for SCCA STX Class. Full prep massive money pit sink hole. However started learning how to tune suspension, handling dynamics. Never actually got on the track with that car (mostly because I had a race seat in it without a prior cage...thanks STX rules) but was more comfortable with "feeling" the car and extracting speed.

Sold the 128i and now own the FRS going on 4 years. Same thing as prior, SCCA STX prep build and all that fun stuff. However IMO one of the easiest cars to drive and extract speed from and comfortable at the limit of grip. I think buying into a BRZ/FRS platform and slowly making steps in modifications like your 1M to the FRS is a great way for your son to learn the vehicle dynamics and then slowly modify to suit a track car lifestyle. I think it's a great progression plan...


FWIW - If you don't have one already, I'd invest in some safety gear and bring your son up the correct way. I run with a Simpson Hybrid S even with stock seats/airbag.

[JD001]

Is this thread still going?? The teen will grow out of his ager.. BTW, the car is a great little runner, I really enjoy my BRZeee..

[Scabpicker]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

He is responsible, isn't a daredevil, and never shows off. I am on the fence about this being a daily driver for him, but I don't worry about him doing something stupid at the track after saying "watch this", and really don't think he would do that on the street either. (but a parent never really know what they do when they are alone)

Hehehe, you could always put a straight exhaust on whatever car they get. I bought my first car myself, a 1975 Ranchero with a 351W and glass packs. Until I had it, my parents were pretty sure I was a great driver, because I was halfway sane while they were in the car with me. After the Ranchero, they knew better. They could hear me rev it out as I left the neighborhood.


I'd almost be in the "Why don't you buy them a manual econobox first?" crowd, but I had my dad's 1982 Escort sideways on two wheels at one point*. A lack of power and front wheel drive is no cure for being a maniac.







*Do not try this at home. I was fortunate (not skilled) enough to save it. He didn't know about it until I told him decades later.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

Just quoting this in particular because it's your last post.

Knowing how the N54 boost comes on (especially since you have it tuned) I would not have your son learn to drive the 1M on the track.

FWIW - If you don't have one already, I'd invest in some safety gear and bring your son up the correct way. I run with a Simpson Hybrid S even with stock seats/airbag.

The tune uses a linear throttle map which is easier to modulate than the stock tune, if you can believe that. When throttle is added gradually through mid corner, there is no appreciable lag. Must be judicious with the right foot for sure.

Thanks for the HANS suggestion. I checked it out. They make it sound like you need a buddy to get properly set up in the car. Is that always needed, or just when you make your initial adjustments?

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

The tune uses a linear throttle map which is easier to modulate than the stock tune, if you can believe that. When throttle is added gradually through mid corner, there is no appreciable lag. Must be judicious with the right foot for sure.

Thanks for the HANS suggestion. I checked it out. They make it sound like you need a buddy to get properly set up in the car. Is that always needed, or just when you make your initial adjustments?

Yea makes sense. I've driven some JB4 N54 cars (135i) coupled with a Stock 1M and I would say both surge boost pretty bad. Could have been the owners map setting

Just initial setup - you need someone to be wearing the helmet and helps to have someone else adjust the tethers to limit proper head movement. Throwing on the HANS and clipping to the helmet is a one person thing.

Recommend trying to find a race shop to try on in person. Sizing chart per Simpson I wear a Medium/Large, in person the straps are such I wear a small. The backbrace/mold is the same size throughout FWIW, only thing that is different is strap adjustment and length

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I should clarify, he would be doing HPDE with professional instruction. Even if they signed him off to drive solo, I would not let him truly drive solo until he is 18, regardless of what he was driving.

What I meant was continuous 1 on 1 instruction with a professional driver or a driving school.

- Andrew

[venturaII]

I still don't understand what's wrong with using the E30 as a track rat...there's few better vehicles to learn handling dynamics on, or with a larger aftermarket. And if anything it'd make him faster in and more appreciative of the 86 platform if/when he finally decides to move up...

[ls1ac]

If you do use it for DD there are many tools to monitor driving habits. Many years ago I had a plugin OBD2 that recorded time and speed only. The kids were going to school 20mi. away. It did not take lone to see they were being responsible drivers. Put it back in the box, I will bet it is still in the basement somewhere.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

Yea makes sense. I've driven some JB4 N54 cars (135i) coupled with a Stock 1M and I would say both surge boost pretty bad. Could have been the owners map setting

The stock throttle map is designed to produce 90% response by 50% pedal. It makes the car seem fast, but isn’t easy to control. JB4 will accentuate the problem. Proper flash tune (I use MHD android flasher) rewrites the throttle map and I use the linear option, which tries to make the response feel mote like a cable activated throttle. It’s much better.

Thanks for the feedback on the HANS...may pull the trigger on that.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by venturaII

I still don't understand what's wrong with using the E30 as a track rat...there's few better vehicles to learn handling dynamics on, or with a larger aftermarket. And if anything it'd make him faster in and more appreciative of the 86 platform if/when he finally decides to move up...

Here are my thoughts on that:

It has the ETA motor, which has a restrictive head, single valve retainers, 4500 rpm redline, built for fuel economy not power. I don’t want to motor swap it and this is not a racing motor.

The rear main seal leaks a little. 2-3 drops a day, but enough to fail HPDE tech.

The rear diff output seals leak, also an inspection issue.

It has a nice leather interior with front seats that are made for comfort and have minimal bolstering. It was work to stay in the seat at autocross.

Because it is not a 325i, it was not built for sport. The steering rack is dreadfully slow. A 60ft slalom required shuffling hands on the wheel for each direction change because it required well over 180 degrees of wheel movement....in a slalom! Done ask me about the pinch corners, LOL

The car is a rare example of an e30 touring sedan that has not been modified. The interior is perfect, no cracks on the dash, no tears in the leather, no flattening of the drivers seat bolsters. No accidents. It drives great as a touring car and I don’t want to change that.

The combination of all the little mechanical issues that would have to be fixed (but are otherwise minor), the degree of chassis modification needed to make it satisfying on the the track, the need to change at least the drivers seat, and that I like it the way it is when I go for a back road drive, make me hesitate to make it a track car.

And as mentioned above by others, it would turn into a wet noodle in a wreck and has no airbags.