WORKS/Ohlins Stage II R&T Coilover Suspension

[ZDan]

same spring rates all around makes zero sense when front motion ratio is ~.95 and rear motion ratio is ~.75. Stiffer rear springs are appropriate to give similar stiffness vs. weight front and rear. 6kg all around gives ~303 lb/in wheel rate up front, 189 lb/in in back. Totally mismatched.

I LOVE the Ohlins DFV dampers on my FD, but there as well, same 11kg/mm spring rates all around was not the way to go given ~.65 front motion ratio and ~.70 rear motion ratio. In that case, stiffer front springs are called for. I'll be swapping the fronts for 13kg/mm soon, as I had to disconnect the rear swaybar with the standard "square" spring rates.

I think they spend every ounce of their efforts on damping, which they do BRILLIANTLY, but then somehow space on spring rates and just stick the same rates up front and in back regardless of the motion ratios. Puzzling to me...

[fooddude]

If you think that's bad (square)..check out all the rates on JDM coilovers haha ...they're even worse and pretty much all of them are stiffer in the front instead of the rear. Doesn't mean it's bad though.

I've read, and I also think, "matching" front/rear spring ratios to exactly match stock ratios isn't always the correct thing to do, especially when amping up the spring rates.

ie: even if the f/r spring ratios are exactly matched to oem, but with much stiffer rates, the car won't behave as expected the same as it did as oem, balance-wise front to rear. Going stiffer will exponentially make everything more sensitive and keeping the oem F-to-R ratios isn't ideal, because you'd be spinning out everywhere. At least, that's what I've read. oem f/r ratio with soft f/r rates is not the same balance as oem f/r ratio with hard rates. Oem soft springs have more headroom to go stiffer in the rear without becoming unmanageable.. and also, stiffer rears were maybe implemented/needed because the oem springs themselves were soft and stiffer rear helps the oem car handle as well as it does in stock soft oem form. Doesn't always mean you must follow the oem ratios..especially when going 3-5x more stiff than oem lol.

eg: if stock is 60% stiffer in rear, lets say F2.5kg R4kg; and one wanted super stiff springs in the mid kgmm teens for a pure track car with full slicks..I don't think it means the correct spring rates should be F14kg R22.4kg.

Correct me if I'm wrong...just my speculation and also from what I've read - basically, don't follow the oem f/r spring rate ratio..as they have nothing in common anymore, especially when going 3-5x stiffer over stock.



.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by ZDan

same spring rates all around makes zero sense when front motion ratio is ~.95 and rear motion ratio is ~.75. Stiffer rear springs are appropriate to give similar stiffness vs. weight front and rear. 6kg all around gives ~303 lb/in wheel rate up front, 189 lb/in in back. Totally mismatched.

I LOVE the Ohlins DFV dampers on my FD, but there as well, same 11kg/mm spring rates all around was not the way to go given ~.65 front motion ratio and ~.70 rear motion ratio. In that case, stiffer front springs are called for. I'll be swapping the fronts for 13kg/mm soon, as I had to disconnect the rear swaybar with the standard "square" spring rates.

I think they spend every ounce of their efforts on damping, which they do BRILLIANTLY, but then somehow space on spring rates and just stick the same rates up front and in back regardless of the motion ratios. Puzzling to me...

I understand where you're coming from...I've got that thread stickied at the top but I really think you should drive the car with good coilovers with even rates. There's more to it than the motion ratio or we'd have some really really stiff rear rates to get the "ideal" natural frequencies people really like to quote.

Ohlins does go very conservative and build in some understeer, sometimes. The EVO X is one example. 10k front 7k rear with a strut front and multilink rear. That's pretty bad and we always go with custom spring rates for that car.

For the 86 there's more than one way to skin a cat and even rates is one of them. Sometimes going stiffer in the rear works too.

- Andy

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I understand where you're coming from...I've got that thread stickied at the top but I really think you should drive the car with good coilovers with even rates. There's more to it than the motion ratio or we'd have some really really stiff rear rates to get the "ideal" natural frequencies people really like to quote.

I trusted them with their square rates on the FD, and lo and behold I find myself wanting stiffer front springs. I would definitely get Ohlins for an FR-S/BRZ, but I'd also definitely go with 7 or 8kg/mm in back with to go with 6 up front.

It's not like this is a high-horsepower or downforce car, I know it *can* work to have square springs, but ~300 lb/in front wheel rate with ~190 lb/in rear isn't where I would start on such a basic, lowish power/weight 54/46 rwd car.

[diss7]

I wonder how these would compare to my RSR Stage 3 coilovers.

Stage 3 is just a name I use internally by the way.

I dont have a stage 1 or 2. But I might do one day.

[WORKS]

For anyone interested in learning more about Öhlins Road & Track Coilovers including their Dual Flow Valve technology they a really nice website here: http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/

[WORKS]

WORKS/Ohlins Stage II R&T Coilovers assembled with Swift Springs for a customer. Pretty looking things, aren't they?

[7thgear]

I'm always curious how a company like Ohlins develops a product


and then a third party shop goes out and claims that what Ohlins is doing is wrong, and changes the specs and claims that "this is how it's done, boys"


behind ever suspension tuner is a driver who "likes it that way"


what is it about the WORKS philosophy that indicates to you guys that this spring change from Ohlin's own specs is necessary? What kind of drivers do you have that are testing these units?

[WORKS]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I'm always curious how a company like Ohlins develops a product


and then a third party shop goes out and claims that what Ohlins is doing is wrong, and changes the specs and claims that "this is how it's done, boys"


behind ever suspension tuner is a driver who "likes it that way"


what is it about the WORKS philosophy that indicates to you guys that this spring change from Ohlin's own specs is necessary? What kind of drivers do you have that are testing these units?

Hi 7thgear,

The conversation above deals with why we offer 70 N/mm rear spring rates. Specifcally the following except:

Originally Posted by WORKS

After years of observing Mitsubishi Evos and Subarus using standard Öhlins coilovers we saw over and over again that they had too soft of rear spring rates and it would result in excessive understeer. We also took note that the factory FR-S and BRZ rear spring rates were higher than the front. The factory FR-S rear spring rate is 60% higher and the BRZ is about 30%. Thus, we choose to equip our Öhlins with 70 N/mm rear spring rates that served to give a front to back ratio that was closer to the factory ratio and ultimately produce a more neutral handling vehicle.

Let me note two additional points as well though. I think some people may be interpreting "excessive understeer" too strongly. What I meant by "excessive understeer" is not extreme understeer, but rather "more than desirable".

The second point is, what you quite rightly point out and related to the previous point, that there is a degree of suspension tuning that is driver dependent. That is why we still offer these coilovers with the rates Ohlins supplies (60/60) and also offer custom spring rates and damper valving for those that are interested in using spring rates beyond the acceptable range of the valving that these coilovers come with.

Hope that helps!

Cheers.

[Stumpygt86]

So can I run these coils with the 60/60 springs and then go to the 70 rear without changing the valving or is that just asking for trouble.

[WORKS]

Originally Posted by Stumpygt86

So can I run these coils with the 60/60 springs and then go to the 70 rear without changing the valving or is that just asking for trouble.

Hi Stumpy,

That would be fine to switch between those spring rates as they are both within the acceptable range for the valving that these coilovers come with.

[kster1]

Originally Posted by Stumpygt86

So can I run these coils with the 60/60 springs and then go to the 70 rear without changing the valving or is that just asking for trouble.

I'm running a spring rate of 350F/425R on the R&T coilovers. When I called ohlins, they said 425 lbs/in would be in the "safe" range with the out of the box valving (and their customer service is very helpful).

[WORKS]

Another customer receiving WORKS/Öhlins Road & Tracks.

[7 skulls]

Been looking at these for a while (have ohlins on my bike) but am concerned about ride height. The roads here are terrible and I have tagged my exhaust a couple of times. Can these be set to stock ride height front and rear? If not how close can they go to stock height? Thanks.