Not liking the new exhaust law... LOOK INSIDE!

[TachyonBomb]

I guess there is some petition going around. I'm not totally sure what the end goal of the petition is. But if Californians want a referendum vote on this we will need 600,000+ signatures to trigger a state wide vote.

Here is the petition link. Only Californians can sign if you want to do things correctly for a referendum vote.

https://www.change.org/p/jay-obernol...273-en-us%3Av2

Here are some good posts to get Californians and the greater car community informed on how things can be done in California if they are serious about change or want to teach a lesson to people that support vague discriminatory laws.







Hope this helps.

[finch1750]

Why do all these petitions have pictures of headers when this has nothing to do with headers?

Also is a Change.org petition valid to get a proposition on a ballot?

[TachyonBomb]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Why do all these petitions have pictures of headers when this has nothing to do with headers?

Also is a Change.org petition valid to get a proposition on a ballot?

The law covers the whole exhaust from headers to axleback.

As long as the officer thinks he smells, hears or sees a modification surrounding anything to do with the exhaust he is given the discretion to pull you over and site you. At which time a mandatory fine is imposed regardless if that axleback is the dealership STI option on a stock brz or a stock base model axleback to over pipe with a JDL header only.

As for the petition. I also thought it was weird that they are using change.org. I'm unfortunately not versed in the fine details of what constitutes a proper signature submission.

I just know the basics such as:
- Only California citizens
- One signature per citizen
- They do check from fraudulent signatures
- Signatures required for referendum = 3% of votes that the CA governor got in their last election. Which comes out to a little over 623,000 signatures needed.

Even if the change.org petition may not be valid for a referendum submission. It is still a really good sign if over 10% of the needed signatures can be gotten in a few days if a more official petition needs to comes around.

Also if you go to the Socal section of this forum a person posted a link to an Instagram video showing a girl getting pulled over in a 350z. The officer does a good job of describing the law and how they plan to implement it.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by TachyonBomb

The law covers the whole exhaust from headers to axleback.

As long as the officer thinks he smells, hears or sees a modification surrounding anything to do with the exhaust he is given the discretion to pull you over and site you. At which time a mandatory fine is imposed regardless if that axleback is the dealership STI option on a stock brz or a stock base model axleback to over pipe with a JDL header only.

As for the petition. I also thought it was weird that they are using change.org. I'm unfortunately not versed in the fine details of what constitutes a proper signature submission.

I just know the basics such as:
- Only California citizens
- One signature per citizen
- They do check from fraudulent signatures
- Signatures required for referendum = 3% of votes that the CA governor got in their last election. Which comes out to a little over 623,000 signatures needed.

Even if the change.org petition may not be valid for a referendum submission. It is still a really good sign if over 10% of the needed signatures can be gotten in a few days if a more official petition needs to comes around.

Also if you go to the Socal section of this forum a person posted a link to an Instagram video showing a girl getting pulled over in a 350z. The officer does a good job of describing the law and how they plan to implement it.

Headers are still illegal like they have been (unless CARB approved). My issue with the pic is it shows catless headers which I dont believe would ever be CARB since federal law says you cant remove or relocate cats. All the change did was change CVC 27150 and 27151 to a non correctable offense instead of a correctable one. There is a whole lot of people getting worked up without all the facts it seems. Hence why i created the PSA thread a few posts down. Please read what CVC 27150 and 27151 actually cover.

That vid is from last year before the law even went into effect, so something is off with it.

[Silvermk2]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Header have and always will be illegal. Thats federal law..

That's not true there are CARB legal headers out there. What you cannot do is remove converters or move them around on the system.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Silvermk2

That's not true there are CARB legal headers out there. What you cannot do is remove converters or move them around on the system.

True. I wil edit for clarity. But there are very few in general and non for our cars and from that aspect it doesnt really change since sound was always still a seperate factor

[Bach415]

People do need to read up on all the facts. Finch is correct on the statement of making the offense to a non-correctable offense. Everything else is still the same from back then. Don't know why everyone is getting worked up on it. People who are getting pulled over and ticketed might also have parts that aren't carb legal hence the more expensive ticket. The law still allows us to have non-oem equipment as long as it doesn't violate the emissions/sound db(95db) if I recall.

[TachyonBomb]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Headers are still illegal like they have been (unless CARB approved). My issue with the pic is it shows catless headers which I dont believe would ever be CARB since federal law says you cant remove or relocate cats. All the change did was change CVC 27150 and 27151 to a non correctable offense instead of a correctable one. There is a whole lot of people getting worked up without all the facts it seems. Hence why i created the PSA thread a few posts down. Please read what CVC 27150 and 27151 actually cover.

That vid is from last year before the law even went into effect, so something is off with it.

I didn't start the petition so you're barking up the wrong tree for the an explanation behind its reasoning which would satisfy you.

Remember there is also a ridiculous large mandatory fine attached the law which is in itself discriminatory to who can play to play.

This law does away with the dB and visual checks that other laws have in place in case the officer was wrong or for the car owner to revert the car back to a legal condition.

There are already state and federal laws and checking institutions/methods in place for stuff like header or cat removal. There is more than one side as to why this law is over reaching and more of a burden.

Also like I previously mentioned the law gives officers too much discretion to pull anyone over for any reason.

The meat and potatoes at the heart of the unrest with the law is:
-It takes away a tool for the public to defend themselves on the roads and in court in giving to officers to much discretion
-It takes away the layer of protection the public has in fix it tickets and the tests that come with them
-It adds a heavy mandatory financial burden on the driver in relation to the accusation.

As for the video it's not my problem I didn't post it. It was just a good example of an officer stating the ins and out of the law while giving a citation for that law.

The public can sometimes take a long time to realize some bad law has been passed. I'm honestly surprised that more people cared about this so fast while no one seems to care about the internet neutrality thing. But that's the way things happen with humans. lol

[TachyonBomb]

Lastly the California supreme court would easily settle any issue with the law if someone would ever ACLU lawyer up for a citation from this law. That will probably be the most realistic way this law gets settled.

[finch1750]

I am merely pointing out issues with the way people are freaking out and sharing info that has no been confirmed by anyone besides "the internet"

I didnt know who started the petition, but you posted it and im giving my opinion. I do believe the law is BS and a money grab. I dont think that video is a good source based on the old and current law. The law was not in effect in November as he stated, so how do we know he's right about the fine. I have been unable to find the 2019 bail and fine schedule yet to confirm. Do you have better proof on the amount of the fine? If it is really $1k then maybe the reaction is warranted.

Officers always had the same descretion to pull you over. The wording of CVC 27150 has not changed. Just the fine.

I believe this will lead to a fight in court as CVC 27150 and 27151 either conflict by giving 2 different standards and/or 27150 is too vague. But only time will tell. I know I would and am trying to gather facts so others can be just as prepared

[exE36M3]

FWIW - this is not a discrimination issue. This is a modifying your car to be louder or emit questionable exhaust numbers issue. We live in California and air quality and the environment are the drivers of these types of laws, not minorities being profiled for sporty cars.

I've spent enough time on this forum to observe a lot of people willfully removing emission pieces for sound or performance. If one thinks it's *unfair* that they can't modify their car to the point of pollution let's talk about Volkswagen...

[TommyW]

Well my TRD exhaust is a factory part so not much they can do about it, it's not that loud anyway

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

FWIW - this is not a discrimination issue. This is a modifying your car to be louder or emit questionable exhaust numbers issue. We live in California and air quality and the environment are the drivers of these types of laws, not minorities being profiled for sporty cars.

I've spent enough time on this forum to observe a lot of people willfully removing emission pieces for sound or performance. If one thinks it's *unfair* that they can't modify their car to the point of pollution let's talk about Volkswagen...

Mufflers have nothing to do with emissions. There is no valid argument for cat removal here as that has never been a fix it ticket. The big issue here was cat backs only. And I think the issue with "discrimination" is muscle cars tend to not be cited for things like this, or motorcycles not having laws related to noise (afaik, might just never be enforced).

And if people haven't seen legislation has been brought forward to return it to a fix it ticket.

[Bonburner]

I guess I'm on the rare side of being for the change in the process?

Honestly I'm kind of tired of kids hooning around with the loudest exhausts they can install and inhaling nasty exhaust fumes when sitting behind a catless car. They getting pulled over with a fix-it ticket, going in saying its off, and reinstalling the same setup for public roads. So nothing changes. At least now they have to think about the risk and pay if they do get caught doing something illegal.

And this is coming for a 28 yo.

Edit - what I don't like is how its completely illegal to replace headers with an aftermarket one .. if its shown to be just as effective as a CAT, then we should be able to install such an aftermarket CAT. I'd like to see tunes being a viable option as well, as long as the emissions is not worsened as well ... but that's for another day.