I'm coming back! - 2018 BRZ tS on order

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by dowroa

Huge difference.

The EVO has short gearing.

First in the c5z06 is 45mph. Any other gear at redline is above all legal speed limits.

I had an 05 STi. I have a c5z06.

I would rather drive the 05 STi daily. IF I could afford to shod the c5z06, cool the oil/water/transmission/diff, update the brakes and brake ducting, I would take it to HPDEs all day. I will someday, but just in tires and consumables, I could do a year of track days with a 17+ PP that I could only do 1-2 days tops in the c5z06 at full tilt (at a track like VIR Full).

Put 255s with good camber, bars and springs on the BRZ, and it is a blast. It is not a torque car, however. Different driving style... and a lot less understeer.

I don't think gearing makes a difference. I drove a 350z HR in which 3rd gear went to 104 mph. It was fun to drive because it puts you in your seat.

[ermax]

I have to agree that gearing makes a difference. I drove a Ford GT at Gainesville Raceway’s little road course and you would shift to second and leave it there. 1st went to something like 70mph and 2nd went to 100mph. It was like an autox where you don’t really feel like downshifting to first for a short blast but your going too slow for second. The car was torquey so it was still fun but the whole time I was thinking it would be boring on normal roads without seriously breaking the speed limit. I can’t afford a super high end car where this would be a problem but I have several friends who have gotten high end cars and either drive them like grandma and suck it up or sell them and go back to something like an Evo that is fast but still fun to beat down.

I live in Florida where high end cars are a dime a dozen and it’s incredibly rare to see someone actually drive them as intended. What is the point in an F488 if you’re afraid too drive it for fear of being arrested, being killed or breaking it. Parking is also a problem. I knew a guy with an R8 that got hit on the side on that carbon fiber piece which cost him around 10K to fix. He fixed it and sold it saying it just wasn’t fun to always be stressed about.

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

I don't disagree. I'd like to see the downforce and drag numbers for that wing. The design might of Subaru could have provided plenty of downforce in other ways. That wing is there for one reason; "because racecar" to look cool on cars that will never see the track.

You need to see the numbers of a fat wing to be convinced it's creating rear downforce? Over the two rear driving wheels to boot? Where did this dense boy pop out from.

[booher]

I did a full exhaust, intake, and tune, and felt my frs was pretty quick. Shortly after, i ended up getting a 17 2ss camaro. The camaro has way more power and handles great! It just doesn't give you that go kart feel that the frs does. But now it's to sow to drive after the camaro, so my gf drives it now. The frs has an amazing seating position, and i couldn't bring myself to sell it, hah!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

This makes no sense to me. I have a modded evo and it's way more fun messing around at lower speeds than my frs because of the torque. You have to speed to feel any exhilaration in the frs. I can have fun below 60 on any road in the evo. Can't do that with the frs.

Around twists, the cars have different dynamics but I think the evo is a lot more fun due to the g forces you feel flooring it around and exiting turns.

If you can't have fun in your FRS while going under 60mph then you are driving it wrong.

I love not having to build boost and the ability to oversteer whenever I want, especially in the rain. This car is exciting to drive at 5mph and above IMO. I feel like a kid in a big go-kart whenever I run errands.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

If you can't have fun in your FRS while going under 60mph then you are driving it wrong.

I love not having to build boost and the ability to oversteer whenever I want, especially in the rain. This car is exciting to drive at 5mph and above IMO. I feel like a kid in a big go-kart whenever I run errands.

Well, my example was based on normal street driving, which the frs is basically an eco box in those conditions. I daily the frs over a mountain to work and the frs is fun over it. However, the evo is just more exciting if you are driving for grip.

Building boost is where the excitement is at. I think small turbo cars like the fiesta st provide a better go-kart experience.

When I first bought the frs, it was the fastest thing I've ever driven, but when you actually take the time to look around, there are plenty of better all around cars that are in the same price bracket and I'd choose and STI or Evo over this tS since they are faster and better handling cars for the same price.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

When I first bought the frs, it was the fastest thing I've ever driven, but when you actually take the time to look around, there are plenty of better all around cars that are in the same price bracket and I'd choose and STI or Evo over this tS since they are faster and better handling cars for the same price.

Remember -- compare apples to apples.

A NEW STi is 38-40k. There are better cars to choose at that price range.**

A USED STI is in the 25-30k range. There are better USED cars to choose a that price range.**

A USED BRZ is MUCH cheaper than a USED STI (you can only go back to 2013 STIs as the BRZ hasn't been around since 2004).

A USED 2013 BRZ is 13k. It is pretty damned good at that price range.

Compared to the Impreza RS that the BRZ really replaces, it is a MUCH more fun car. And, it is pretty good at rallyX.

** - Depends on what you are looking for, but you can get some pretty fast cars for the same USED prices as an STI that haven't been "tastefully modded".


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Still, the tS is a pretty car. I maintain for that NEW money, it isn't the best value BRZ for NEW money. Also, for the NEW money, there are better cars to choose... but "better" depends on the buyer.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by dowroa

Remember -- compare apples to apples.

A NEW STi is 38-40k. There are better cars to choose at that price range.**

A USED STI is in the 25-30k range. There are better USED cars to choose a that price range.**

A USED BRZ is MUCH cheaper than a USED STI (you can only go back to 2013 STIs as the BRZ hasn't been around since 2004).

A USED 2013 BRZ is 13k. It is pretty damned good at that price range.

Compared to the Impreza RS that the BRZ really replaces, it is a MUCH more fun car. And, it is pretty good at rallyX.

** - Depends on what you are looking for, but you can get some pretty fast cars for the same USED prices as an STI that haven't been "tastefully modded".


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Still, the tS is a pretty car. I maintain for that NEW money, it isn't the best value BRZ for NEW money. Also, for the NEW money, there are better cars to choose... but "better" depends on the buyer.

The STi is a great track car and not much in it's price range can compare to it. The only thing I can think of is a Camaro. But big V8s are only cheap in North America.

Also, I was comparing new value, not used. There are plenty of good cars whose value fell off the earth. You can get a 350z HR for the same value as a used BRZ. You can get a used 2014 fiesta st for $10k. You can get a used s2k for $15-17k.

A BRZ tS is $33.5k. A base STI is $36k. That's the same shopping range. A 2015 Evo which dealerships still have new are $35k. Both these cars will out handle the brz and have +150tq and +100hp. Come with brembos, wider set of tires, extra (expensive) differentials, transfer case, a $2000 wing, forged internals, a turbo, intercooler, ducting, etc. All with a better resale value as you mentioned :p. The brz tS price is too out there.

[dowroa]

Very quickly, as I don't want to rain in an tS thread too much OT:

• Apples to Apples: If you are going to compare a special tS price, you have to compare pricing of a ST Type RA which is $49,855. You can use a non-updated EVO with a wrong MY designation (meaning Mitsubishi is just selling it, not stating you stated anything incorrect)... but that is a scaled down non-MR version... so not quite.
• I really don't think the EVO or STi are great track cars, honestly. I think they are capable, but not great. Have you tracked those cars or the heavier cars you mentioned?
• I do agree with your used listings. Those are the cars the BRZ competes with in competitions.

In your synopsis, I do agree the tS price is out there. What is added really doesn't improve the base beyond the PP (but will test well with the Michelin tires on it).

However, I don't see a way it is ever directly, trim for trim, comparable to an STi.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by dowroa

Very quickly, as I don't want to rain in an tS thread too much OT:

• Apples to Apples: If you are going to compare a special tS price, you have to compare pricing of a ST Type RA which is $49,855. You can use a non-updated EVO with a wrong MY designation (meaning Mitsubishi is just selling it, not stating you stated anything incorrect)... but that is a scaled down non-MR version... so not quite.
• I really don't think the EVO or STi are great track cars, honestly. I think they are capable, but not great. Have you tracked those cars or the heavier cars you mentioned?
• I do agree with your used listings. Those are the cars the BRZ competes with in competitions.

In your synopsis, I do agree the tS price is out there. What is added really doesn't improve the base beyond the PP (but will test well with the Michelin tires on it).

However, I don't see a way it is ever directly, trim for trim, comparable to an STi.

It is apples to apples. They are the same price point. The Evo and STI are quicker track machines. Evos and STIs are siting within the same tier as BMW Ms, Merc AMGs and are quicker than a lot of Porsches. They are also one of the best cars to build for time attacks.
I haven't tracked my cars as yet as the closest track to me is 3 hours away and time is an issue. However, I have been driving a mountain road everyday to work for 4 years, so I know it fairly well and can push 100% but push 85-90% most of the time for safety reasons. The FR-S is a great platform but what's different in the evo is the ease it gives you entering and exiting corners. It's a heavy pig, but the SAWC makes up for the weight. What happens is when you enter a corner and the electronics detect understeer, it vectors power to the wheels with more traction. You will feel the car understeer a bit, then a split second later it will correct itself and swing itself into more of an oversteer. Not to mention you can straight up floor the accelerator around high speed curves. It's the system that helped them win plenty of rally events. With the FRS, I can roll myself around hairpins and I noticed i can achieve the same entrance and cornering speeds as the evo, but I can't exit as quick. My FRS has a better power to weight atm. I use Michelin PSS on both cars.

[jonboy99]

Hmm, I was thinking of trading the brz for a z06 this year. Reading this thread has reinforced the feeling I'll be making a mistake. I also will miss driving the brz in winter too, it's when I have the most fun in it. Can't imagine driving a corvette in a Canadian winter.

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[fatoni]

Originally Posted by jonboy99

Hmm, I was thinking of trading the brz for a z06 this year. Reading this thread has reinforced the feeling I'll be making a mistake. I also will miss driving the brz in winter too, it's when I have the most fun in it. Can't imagine driving a corvette in a Canadian winter.

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I would drive one and see what you think. There's so much stupid opinion in this thread. The corvette isn't that much heavier than the frs. It's just faster.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by fatoni

I would drive one and see what you think. There's so much stupid opinion in this thread. The corvette isn't that much heavier than the frs. It's just faster.

The Corvette is nearly 3600lbs which is ~800 more than a twin.

I owned a Corvette and while it was a great car I personally had more fun in my twin and enjoyed it more as a daily driver.

Less stress, lower cost of ownership, and it was just flat out more fun to drive.

Now if we are talking track driving, I'd choose the Vette hands down every time.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

The Corvette is nearly 3600lbs which is ~800 more than a twin.

I owned a Corvette and while it was a great car I personally had more fun in my twin and enjoyed it more as a daily driver.

Less stress, lower cost of ownership, and it was just flat out more fun to drive.

Now if we are talking track driving, I'd choose the Vette hands down every time.

Which 'vette? c5z06 is 3118lbs, and race weight it is close to the BRZ (depending on class restrictions).

2002 Z06 had a curb weight of 3118 lbs
BRZ 2,789 to 2,840 lbs