Rear camber question!!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by bamripzit

Did do research guys , just posted this up because a buddy of mine kept telling me he adjusted his rear without any aftermarket parts. Guess he trolled me !

Some shops claim they can get rear adjustment by loosening everything and pushing it into position and then tightening the bolts down to squish the bushings in a certain direction and take use of any sloppiness in the bolt locations. I've read Miata guys can get another 0.5 degree of camber by doing this, but not sure I believe them and would be surprised if it could do anything more than 0.1 degrees on an 86.



Edit: I haven't seen an alignment sheet from an OE 86 with positive front camber or greater than 0.5 degree difference between left and right (except one guy after his coilover install). Rears are generally between -1 and -1.5 camber with some outliers at -0.9 or less.

[GeorgeJFrick]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Some shops claim they can get rear adjustment by loosening everything and pushing it into position and then tightening the bolts down to squish the bushings in a certain direction and take use of any sloppiness in the bolt locations. I've read Miata guys can get another 0.5 degree of camber by doing this, but not sure I believe them and would be surprised if it could do anything more than 0.1 degrees on an 86.



Edit: I haven't seen an alignment sheet from an OE 86 with positive front camber or greater than 0.5 degree difference between left and right (except one guy after his coilover install). Rears are generally between -1 and -1.5 camber with some outliers at -0.9 or less.

I'm confused on this front. Some guys say to expect the rear to be mis-aligned from the factory (aka, you MUST get LCA). Others say it is sometimes mis-aligned from the factory (aka, recommend LCA). Generally it sounds like they aren't far off when they are mis-aligned ( ~.5). Can you be specific about your experience here? It would help me pull a $300 trigger NOW, before my alignment appointment (with driver in seat 4 wheel balance).

Thanks.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

I'm confused on this front. Some guys say to expect the rear to be mis-aligned from the factory (aka, you MUST get LCA). Others say it is sometimes mis-aligned from the factory (aka, recommend LCA). Generally it sounds like they aren't far off when they are mis-aligned ( ~.5). Can you be specific about your experience here? It would help me pull a $300 trigger NOW, before my alignment appointment (with driver in seat 4 wheel balance).

Thanks.

Mine was off almost a full degree (.8 off). It depends on factory. Plus I had whiteline subframe bushings installed which may have made it a little worse.

Originally Posted by ansibe

I bought whiteline LCAs to adjust rear camber at a cost of $300. Then, in a flash of brilliance, I had my alignment checked before installing: -1.5 L, -1.2 R. Plus, I had more grip than I could use at the rear.

I put the new LCAs on, and had the car aligned to -1.5 L & R. So ... $300 for a -0.3 change on one side. I'm not sure I can even tell the difference, although I tell myself the car turns left better. Probably not the best $300 I've ever spent. (Please don't tell my wife!)

In contrast, I bought $65 whiteline camber bolts for the front and gained about -1.4 each side (final camber is -1.6, but I started at -0.2!). That's a bargain in comparison, and it made a HUGE difference in how my car reacts on the track.

Bamripzit - sorry for the hijack, I know this post doesn't apply to your question. BTW, I thought it was a good question, and if you hadn't asked I wouldn't have read the guitar man's (strat61caster's) excellent explanation!

Or you can get SPC bolts for $25 and get almost -3 up front (Whiteline is just rebranded spc anyway)

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

I'm confused on this front. Some guys say to expect the rear to be mis-aligned from the factory (aka, you MUST get LCA). Others say it is sometimes mis-aligned from the factory (aka, recommend LCA). Generally it sounds like they aren't far off when they are mis-aligned ( ~.5). Can you be specific about your experience here? It would help me pull a $300 trigger NOW, before my alignment appointment (with driver in seat 4 wheel balance).

Thanks.

It depends entirely on your purposes, anybody who is more specific than that with their advice without you describing that further than you have in this thread is blowing air.

Instead of generalities here's what I experienced:
Factory alignment:
Left Rear Camber: -1.0
Right Rear Camber: -1.4
Toe adjustment: adequate to hit zero, some toe in or some toe out.

First shop said "Oh we can move stuff around and balance it out" they didn't, the second shop didn't make claims like that and were aligning my newly installed front camber bolts, same camber numbers in the rear as the first shop, different machine ~3 months apart.

My car had that camber for over 3 years (it's been the same every time I measured it, figured it was that away from birth) and I have zero complaints about it, it served my purposes well with casual autox/hpde/DD usage logging 45k miles. I had it lowered on B14's for a month, never measured the camber so I don't know what it increased to, but it visibly increased and added some rear grip. I recently installed LCA's in order to get more negative camber for competitive autox purposes. If I wasn't competing I wouldn't have spent the money, fyi the SPC LCA's are technically not SCCA legal in the Street classes because the bushing is more metallic than OE. Nobody should hassle you about it but it's worth noting if serious competition is on the table.

imho
If you want to do it for more performance: do it. If you want it to even out Left/Right because you're anal retentive and it will always be on your mind and you'll use it as an excuse when things aren't perfect: do it. If you're doing it because other people say so: save your money.

Originally Posted by finch1750

Or you can get SPC bolts for $25 and get almost -3 up front (Whiteline is just rebranded spc anyway)

SPC/Whiteline bolts only got me -0.8 degrees up front from -0.3 for a total of -1.1, luckily only overpaid by ~$15 to the tune of ~$40 for the pair iirc. Are you running different struts or changing both bolts to achieve -3?

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It depends entirely on your purposes, anybody who is more specific than that with their advice without you describing that further than you have in this thread is blowing air.

Instead of generalities here's what I experienced:
Factory alignment:
Left Rear Camber: -1.0
Right Rear Camber: -1.4
Toe adjustment: adequate to hit zero, some toe in or some toe out.

First shop said "Oh we can move stuff around and balance it out" they didn't, the second shop didn't make claims like that and were aligning my newly installed front camber bolts, same camber numbers in the rear as the first shop, different machine ~3 months apart.

My car had that camber for over 3 years (it's been the same every time I measured it, figured it was that away from birth) and I have zero complaints about it, it served my purposes well with casual autox/hpde/DD usage logging 45k miles. I had it lowered on B14's for a month, never measured the camber so I don't know what it increased to, but it visibly increased and added some rear grip. I recently installed LCA's in order to get more negative camber for competitive autox purposes. If I wasn't competing I wouldn't have spent the money, fyi the SPC LCA's are technically not SCCA legal in the Street classes because the bushing is more metallic than OE. Nobody should hassle you about it but it's worth noting if serious competition is on the table.

imho
If you want to do it for more performance: do it. If you want it to even out Left/Right because you're anal retentive and it will always be on your mind and you'll use it as an excuse when things aren't perfect: do it. If you're doing it because other people say so: save your money.





SPC/Whiteline bolts only got me -0.8 degrees up front from -0.3 for a total of -1.1, luckily only overpaid by ~$15 to the tune of ~$40 for the pair iirc. Are you running different struts or changing both bolts to achieve -3?

The SPC bolt is for the lower hole (14mm vs the 16mm whiteline bolt they sell). Take the OEM lower bolt and put it up top (it's the oem crash bolt). I got -2.7 and many others have got similar on OEM struts this way.

[ansibe]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Or you can get SPC bolts for $25 and get almost -3 up front (Whiteline is just rebranded spc anyway)

Yes, I discovered this after I bought the whiteline bolts. That's $40 I'm never getting back!

I thought the cheaper bolts had no cam, so they stay in place by clamping force alone. Maybe that gives you more adjustment. -1.6 was the best I could get with the whiteline bolts mounted in Koni Yellow struts. I'm on OE springs and sways, so with cornering loads the camber is probably near the -2.5 or so that lowering gets you.

[GeorgeJFrick]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It depends entirely on your purposes, anybody who is more specific than that with their advice without you describing that further than you have in this thread is blowing air.

Instead of generalities here's what I experienced:
Factory alignment:
Left Rear Camber: -1.0
Right Rear Camber: -1.4
Toe adjustment: adequate to hit zero, some toe in or some toe out.

First shop said "Oh we can move stuff around and balance it out" they didn't, the second shop didn't make claims like that and were aligning my newly installed front camber bolts, same camber numbers in the rear as the first shop, different machine ~3 months apart.

My car had that camber for over 3 years (it's been the same every time I measured it, figured it was that away from birth) and I have zero complaints about it, it served my purposes well with casual autox/hpde/DD usage logging 45k miles. I had it lowered on B14's for a month, never measured the camber so I don't know what it increased to, but it visibly increased and added some rear grip. I recently installed LCA's in order to get more negative camber for competitive autox purposes. If I wasn't competing I wouldn't have spent the money, fyi the SPC LCA's are technically not SCCA legal in the Street classes because the bushing is more metallic than OE. Nobody should hassle you about it but it's worth noting if serious competition is on the table.

imho
If you want to do it for more performance: do it. If you want it to even out Left/Right because you're anal retentive and it will always be on your mind and you'll use it as an excuse when things aren't perfect: do it. If you're doing it because other people say so: save your money.




SPC/Whiteline bolts only got me -0.8 degrees up front from -0.3 for a total of -1.1, luckily only overpaid by ~$15 to the tune of ~$40 for the pair iirc. Are you running different struts or changing both bolts to achieve -3?

Velox makes specifically STX legal LCA's, but i think the SPC/Whiteline are close enough for local competition. I don't know any besides the Velox that are STX legal?

I purchased the Whiteline and they're on their way, because I'm going to be OCD about this which I should have faced right away. So you made a good point.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

Velox makes specifically STX legal LCA's, but i think the SPC/Whiteline are close enough for local competition. I don't know any besides the Velox that are STX legal?

I purchased the Whiteline and they're on their way, because I'm going to be OCD about this which I should have faced right away. So you made a good point.

RacerX makes a nice set of LCA's that can be STX legal.

[JohnJuan]

Originally Posted by cjd

RacerX makes a nice set of LCA's that can be STX legal.

Link