water methanol injection

[Silverdub]

I searched but could not find the thread other then the one in the for sale section... I am looking at making more power on my current turbo setup, I don't have access to e85 so I am pretty much maxed out I believe with the shitty gas I have in montreal. can I just buy an aem or snow performance kit, hook it up and drive or do I need tuning for it as well?

[swift996]

In theory they don't require much tuning but the key benefit is you're able to run more timing and that would require calibration/tune. You also might want to look into a fail safe system in case the W/M stops flowing so you don't detonate you're engine.

[swift996]

@ptuning has the most experience on our platform (they sell a kit) but I've also heard great things about snow performance and know a lot of WRX/STI guys run that.

[JerryMichaels7]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34654
BAM! all you need.

[mad_sb]

evolutionm.net has some really good basic information in the water meth section, it would be worth a read before you jump in to the drunk tank:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/water-m...ous-oxide-173/

Check out the stickies, and for sure the failsafe thread, the mixture thread, and the faq thread.

To answer your questions though, you will need a tune to take advantage of the additional detonation resistance otherwise you won't see much if any gains.

[Frs300]

aem and wire it into the ecu so ecutek can control it. you already have @Visconti so he should be able to help you out with the aem kit and get you up and running with a meth map as well as tell you what wires you need to hook it up to

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by swift996

@ptuning has the most experience on our platform (they sell a kit) but I've also heard great things about snow performance and know a lot of WRX/STI guys run that.

We'll be releasing our PnP WMI system shortly. We made some last minute changes to a few components to allow it to fit RHD models too, hence the delays. We can assure you all that the end result will be a more well thought out and much cleaner setup than screwing a tank and pump to a piece of plywood and bolting it in the trunk.

We'll offer a fixed pressure controller, a progressive controller option, a failsafe option, and an optional custom failsafe boost limiter system too.

Our goal is to eventually include specific components and instructions for every popular SC and turbo system.

[sw20kosh]

Yes you need a new tune to make more power unless you just turn up your boost and make sure your inj sys is spraying when high boost hits.

The time consuming thing with tuning for meth is the transition from no meth to meth. It has to be fine tuned

[swift996]

Originally Posted by ptuning

We'll be releasing our PnP WMI system shortly. We made some last minute changes to a few components to allow it to fit RHD models too, hence the delays. We can assure you all that the end result will be a more well thought out and much cleaner setup than screwing a tank and pump to a piece of plywood and bolting it in the trunk.

We'll offer a fixed pressure controller, a progressive controller option, a failsafe option, and an optional custom failsafe boost limiter system too.

Our goal is to eventually include specific components and instructions for every popular SC and turbo system.

How does that stack up to the Aquamist kits? I noticed the AEM/Snow etc kits have a water dribble when you back off.

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by swift996

How does that stack up to the Aquamist kits? I noticed the AEM/Snow etc kits have a water dribble when you back off.

The high end Aquamist kits are definitely nice, but very expensive too. A properly set up WMI system using select AEM/Snow/Devil's Own/etc components will offer the same performance and at a lower price. The current AEM nozzles have a built in check valve to prevent water siphoning on engine decel.

[Toma]

Originally Posted by ptuning

The high end Aquamist kits are definitely nice, but very expensive too. A properly set up WMI system using select AEM/Snow/Devil's Own/etc components will offer the same performance and at a lower price. The current AEM nozzles have a built in check valve to prevent water siphoning on engine decel.

Aquamist stopped using their good quality magnetic pumps and is using the same bricks as anyone else.

If you ad meth injection to a good tune pump gas engine, you WILL lose power. To get it back youll have to lean it.out raise boost and add timing.

We went to multi point injection in then 80s. If you are gonna RELY on ur kit.... I would run mostly water and put one nozzle in every port.

10 years ago or more we replaced the side of a 2jz intake with plexiglass and ran 650cc on a 650hp engine with 2 nozzles before the throttle body. You could see rivers of water flowing down the walls making a pull on the dyno. You will NOT get equal distribution....and we were using misting nozzles that were over $100 each. The ones with a water inlet and one for compressed air.....extremely fine spray. Better than what you get in kits today AND we were running off 30 bar magnetic pulse pumps.

[Ammonia]

I ran meth for awhile in my 135i. CoolingMist was the one I went with, no issues and easy to maintain. If I had a recommendation to give it would go to them.

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by Toma

Aquamist stopped using their good quality magnetic pumps and is using the same bricks as anyone else.

If you ad meth injection to a good tune pump gas engine, you WILL lose power. To get it back youll have to lean it.out raise boost and add timing.

We went to multi point injection in then 80s. If you are gonna RELY on ur kit.... I would run mostly water and put one nozzle in every port.

10 years ago or more we replaced the side of a 2jz intake with plexiglass and ran 650cc on a 650hp engine with 2 nozzles before the throttle body. You could see rivers of water flowing down the walls making a pull on the dyno. You will NOT get equal distribution....and we were using misting nozzles that were over $100 each. The ones with a water inlet and one for compressed air.....extremely fine spray. Better than what you get in kits today AND we were running off 30 bar magnetic pulse pumps.

We certainly never said to add WMI to a car without tuning it, so hopefully that comment wasn't directed this way.

This is not our first rodeo with WMI. We tuned and ran WMI on our GT35R Time Attack Scion tC for two race seasons and have two championship trophies to show for it. The car made 565whp with a single 650cc nozzle pre-throttle body on 93 pump gas. The car was run BTTW for half hour sessions at a time with no tuning issues.....no drag or dyno queens here. Our lead tech has been running the same WMI system on his 350whp xA for DD, drag racing, autocrossing, and time attack for the past 5 years and over 120K miles. We've made over 350 dyno pulls on our turbocharged FR-S with a single WMI nozzle and a recent leakdown test shows a perfect 3% leakdown across all four cylinders.

If you weld a standard of-the-shelf 1/8" npt bung to you IC pipe, your nozzle will spray like a garden hose since the spray pattern will be distorted when it hits the side of bung. Most WM nozzles have a short threaded body with a wide spray pattern. We found this out by bench testing the nozzle with the different bungs before welding it to our intercooler pipe. We custom machined custom NPT bungs to prevent this from happening.

Nothing is absolutely perfect in the world of performance, but it'll never keep people from modding their cars. A direct port nozzle would be the best performance-wise, but still isn't the be all end all.

Let's take two scenarios here:

1) You have a 6 cylinder engine with a single nozzle and your guess is that the cylinders get a WM distribution of: 20% as the highest and 14% as the lowest due to manifold design, etc. based on data from individual WB O2 sensors on each exhaust runner. After a few dozen dyno pulls and constant tuning you'll end up with an AFR and timing map to work with this imperfect, but non-changing WM distribution. Basically tuning for the weakest link.

2) You have the same 6 cylinder engine with 6 individual nozzles. You tune the car with perfect 16.7% WM distribution to each cylinder. You create a timing map and settle on AFR's that give you super sweet results that are slightly better than what you were able to achieve with a single nozzle. A couple of months down the road the car starts losing compression in one cylinder. You go to find that one of the nozzles is partially clogged, but you had no way of knowing, because the failsafe parameters that were set couldn't detect that one of six cylinders were only getting a fraction of the WM that it should receive.

Moral of the story, nothing in the performance world is absolutely perfect, but we'll go with what we know works. In the end though, we'll likely sell the WMI nozzles a la carte and let the customer decide how they want to set up their nozzle system.

[swift996]

@ptuning

This is what I was referring to:
http://s240.photobucket.com/user/slo...dia/A.flv.html