Concept Z Performance (CZP) will steal from you, literally.

[ATaraxias]

Originally Posted by why?

uh yea no. Good luck finding any court anywhere that would force anyone to ever even think about complying with a contract that is not formally written or signed. Especially when the vendor has literally done everything every other company routinely does for the exact same situation.

You might as well just post, "I know nothing about contract formation, commercial law or the UCC." To anyone who has taken a basic contracts class, that's what your post already looks like, complete inanity.

[King Tut]

Why do I see this ending in small claims court? Perhaps we can get Judge Judy or ole Wapner on the case? I would love to see how that would play out.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Mike@CZP

Hey Aaron,

I hope I can clear this up. As I stated in our emails, I would gladly receive all the parts back to me with no penalty to you at all. (100% refund, no shipping fees, etc.) I even offered to credit you back for the missing part with additional money to find the part from another vendor.

Our policies on our site show that there is a $50 chargeback fee if a dispute is made. I tried to let you know that so that you do not get charged $50. I have tries to help in every situation, but I am being accused of stealing. I have offered to receive everything back to with no fees to you.

I tried to get the other half of the order from being shipped, but it shipped directly from the manufacturer, and it was already too late.

If you check my feedback, you will see that I have no negative revewis (pending this whole transaction), and there is a reason for that.

I do apologize for any inconvenience to you, and am always ready to help you (even receiving all the parts back with no fees to you)

The very fact that you do something so unethical and petty as pass chargeback fees to customers is reason enough to avoid your company. The rest of this thread isn't even needed.

I'm glad to see that you did try to make it right, and the OP is being a little unreasonable IMO. But I'd still never place an order from you with that policy in place.

[White64Goat]

And maybe next time you order parts from anyone, you call or e-mail them first to see if they actually have the item(s) IN STOCK, IN HAND. When I need parts for any of my cars and I call someone and they say: "yeah, I've got one in stock", I ask them to go and actually pull the item and hold it for me so I don't drive there and they go, whoops musta been sold and the inventory hadn't changed yet.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The very fact that you do something so unethical and petty as pass chargeback fees to customers is reason enough to avoid your company. The rest of this thread isn't even needed.

I'm glad to see that you did try to make it right, and the OP is being a little unreasonable IMO. But I'd still never place an order from you with that policy in place.

Yeah, I am kind of surprised they have that policy publicly written on their website. I would think that would violate their agreement with the credit card companies or whatever vendor they use to charge credit cards.

[LOLS2K]

Wow, this still hasn't been settled huh?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Yeah, I am kind of surprised they have that policy publicly written on their website. I would think that would violate their agreement with the credit card companies or whatever vendor they use to charge credit cards.

It's usually not but depends on the service provider. However most companies just consider it a cost of doing business and try to avoid chargebacks through other means (like customer service).

[Mike@CZP]

Credit companies charge us fees when customers initiate a chargeback claim. We want to help avoid that by having the customer contact us first so that we can get it settled. Before implementing this, we would have instances where people would initiate chargebacks without even contacting us first, and then we get hit with fees for it.

Chargeback claims are usually for instances where the customer does not receive the product and the vendor is refusing to refund the customer. In this case, I am at no point refusing to refund the customer. I have tried to offer several options where I could refund the customer. I would refund the full order, but the customer has the overpipe and is not returning it free of charge. At no point in this situation was a chargeback initiation even a valid course of action.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

It's usually not but depends on the service provider. However most companies just consider it a cost of doing business and try to avoid chargebacks through other means (like customer service).

[ATaraxias]

Originally Posted by Mike@CZP

Credit companies charge us fees when customers initiate a chargeback claim. We want to help avoid that by having the customer contact us first so that we can get it settled. Before implementing this, we would have instances where people would initiate chargebacks without even contacting us first, and then we get hit with fees for it.

Chargeback claims are usually for instances where the customer does not receive the product and the vendor is refusing to refund the customer. In this case, I am at no point refusing to refund the customer. I have tried to offer several options where I could refund the customer. I would refund the full order, but the customer has the overpipe and is not returning it free of charge. At no point in this situation was a chargeback initiation even a valid course of action.

Technically, that's for the credit card company to decide, but even if it were a valid chargeback, you would still charge the person 50 dollars under your chargeback policy. Has CZP ever had a valid chargeback filed against it, and if so, was it filed by a True Scotsman?

Our business relationship soured precisely because of your chargeback policy. Do not threaten to steal from your customers if you expect them to be reasonable about curing your unilateral mistakes.

Btw, I've got an overpipe and a Q300 exhaust (Thanks @Captain Insano) sitting in my garage waiting for the piece that connects them, any updates from Berk?

[Mike@CZP]

I apologize if you feel that I threatened you, that was never my intention. I merely warned you about the chargeback in order to save you $50. I thought I was helping, especially in the instance where the case would go in our favor. Most chargebacks get denied by the credit card company and go in our favor. Fraudulent customers place orders and have them delivered to different addresses. They then claim that as "not delivered" and place the chargeback to try to get free parts. We don't normally refuse refunds to customer unless there is some evidence of foul play.

I have contacted Berk to try to get your order expedited. They are still giving me the same ETA of Mid-October, but will keep you informed if that gets updated.

This is directly from Berk.

"Hey Mike,

BT8604 is still backordered till mid-October."

"Hey Mike,

Sorry about that. I should of confirmed with you before I shipped it out."

"Hi Mike,

If you want I can send a call tag to the customer and get that part shipped back to Berk and credit you guys. Sorry for the mixup and I'm hoping we can make it right with your customer. Let me know."

Originally Posted by ATaraxias

Technically, that's for the credit card company to decide, but even if it were a valid chargeback, you would still charge the person 50 dollars under your chargeback policy. Has CZP ever had a valid chargeback filed against it, and if so, was it filed by a True Scotsman?

Our business relationship soured precisely because of your chargeback policy. Do not threaten to steal from your customers if you expect them to be reasonable about curing your unilateral mistakes.

Btw, I've got an overpipe and a Q300 exhaust (Thanks @Captain Insano) sitting in my garage waiting for the piece that connects them, any updates from Berk?

[ATaraxias]

Originally Posted by Mike@CZP

I apologize if you feel that I threatened you, that was never my intention. I merely warned you about the chargeback in order to save you $50. I thought I was helping, especially in the instance where the case would go in our favor. Most chargebacks get denied by the credit card company and go in our favor. Fraudulent customers place orders and have them delivered to different addresses. They then claim that as "not delivered" and place the chargeback to try to get free parts. We don't normally refuse refunds to customer unless there is some evidence of foul play.

So then, even in the small number of cases where a valid chargeback exists against your company, you still steal 50 dollars from your customer.


Am I understanding you correctly?

[Mike@CZP]

This is kind of going off-topic at this point, but we still get hit with fees regardless of the outcome. It's very rare that we walk away from a chargeback without having lost money, even if it rules in our favor.

If you have any other questions about your order, please feel free to contact me.

Originally Posted by ATaraxias

So then, even in the small number of case where a valid chargeback exists against your company, you still steal 50 dollars from your customer.


Wow.

[ATaraxias]

Originally Posted by Mike@CZP

This is kind of going off-topic at this point, but we still get hit with fees regardless of the outcome. It's very rare that we walk away from a chargeback without having lost money, even if it rules in our favor.

If you have any other questions about your order, please feel free to contact me.

Well, Mike, the topic is "Concept Z Performance (CZP) will steal from you, literally."

You just admitted to stealing from people who have legitimate chargebacks against your company. I'm pretty sure we are precisely on-topic with our discussion.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by ATaraxias

Did you really just suggest that Amazon or Ebay lie to customers about product availability, ship partial orders without warning and then tell the customer to drop it off at Kinko's on their own time if they don't like it?


Because that sounds very unlike either Amazon or Ebay. It sounds more like a fly-by-night dropshipping company which either doesn't communicate with its manufacturer or gets lied to and then passes the problem onto its customers.

You have no idea how Amazon works, apparently.

Amazon inventory can be divided up into 3 large categories:

1) sold and fulfilled by Amazon
2) sold by 3rd party seller and fulfilled by Amazon
3) sold and fulfilled by Amazon

Amazon does ship partial orders without warning, usually it's at the seller's discretion. Usually they won't do this though, because customers can complain and the sellers could lose out on the payments because of Amazon Marketplace.

Amazon also provides free return shipping, however it involves a prepaid shipping label that requires you to drop off. They almost never issue a call tag unless it's an epic failure of sorts.

I'm mostly adding info and going off topic to this because I can.

-alex