What little things you want to see

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Really? Which car can you COMPLETLY turn abs off in?
Turning dsc sort of fully off isn't a problem usually, unless you have a Merc in which case even if it iss fully off it's stil not :p (as demonstrated by twitchiness of many brabus models)

I know there were some rally inspired cars that had the option to disable it. They also had gravel-mode for the brakes, which changed the threshold for the ABS system being activated. And I know a lot of trucks can have it turned off when enabling full 4x4 mode.

Yeah, a lot of the German brands do not allow fully defeating the stability control. I should know, I own one of them. But there is no law that says it must be so....it's just the byproduct of those cars regularly being driven very fast, and the particulars of the German climate, which gets pretty slick in the winter. (I live there...)

However, there are still german cars that allow it to be turned off. BMW is usually pretty good about this, and I believe that Audi is too (strange, considering that it's basically the same company as VW).

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Dark

Didn't I say that TCS can be turned completely off, but not by that little button over there?

Maybe I have only experienced Toyota cars, so I don't know that the world is sphere. But hey, Isn't it a Toyota?

True that there is no law about not having TCS and ABS completely off, but there is law that require to have them in every cars sell in the US.

Toyota doesn't allow some of their vehicles to completely disable the stability control because frankly, they're driven by middle aged people who are interested in a nice, quiet, comfy vehicle and like the peace of mind. That's what Toyota has become. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that a performance model from toyota, the first in a long time, will not suffer from this. Toyota DOES know how to make a good performance car, they just haven't done it in a while.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Dark

I'm convinced you're right. The case can also be applied for motorcycles.

It depends entirely on the calibration of the ABS system. Frankly, I'm perfectly fine with a well calibrated ABS system, because various race cars and exotics employ them and those engineers know what they're doing better than any of us. I've driven performance cars in which the ABS had been disabled or was never present. They get spooky in rainy conditions, and ESPECIALLY spooky if you're attemping to brake hard on a road that has any kind of banking to it.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Toyota doesn't allow some of their vehicles to completely disable the stability control because frankly, they're driven by middle aged people who are interested in a nice, quiet, comfy vehicle and like the peace of mind. That's what Toyota has become. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that a performance model from toyota, the first in a long time, will not suffer from this. Toyota DOES know how to make a good performance car, they just haven't done it in a while.

Call me a pessimist, but I'll bring this up again. Toyota re-worked the rear suspension of the SW20 MR2 for 'safety' due to inexperienced drivers. Adding to their (completely undeserved) current throttle safety reputation, I doubt the systems will be completely disable-able without some secret pain in the ass code.

They aren't going to risk more damage to their safety reputation by having a bunch of noobs spinning out in traffic.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Maxim

It depends entirely on the calibration of the ABS system. Frankly, I'm perfectly fine with a well calibrated ABS system, because various race cars and exotics employ them and those engineers know what they're doing better than any of us. I've driven performance cars in which the ABS had been disabled or was never present. They get spooky in rainy conditions, and ESPECIALLY spooky if you're attemping to brake hard on a road that has any kind of banking to it.

Lemme ask one dumb question, you think ABS will help if you brake hard on snow surface?

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by Maxim

It depends entirely on the calibration of the ABS system. Frankly, I'm perfectly fine with a well calibrated ABS system, because various race cars and exotics employ them and those engineers know what they're doing better than any of us. I've driven performance cars in which the ABS had been disabled or was never present. They get spooky in rainy conditions, and ESPECIALLY spooky if you're attemping to brake hard on a road that has any kind of banking to it.

my MR2 has never had ABS and i've driven it in all conditions and never had any trouble. choosing proper tires is the key.

Originally Posted by Dark

Lemme ask one dumb question, you think ABS will help if you brake hard on snow surface?

snow? debatable. ice? absolutely. and even if it doesn't necessarily stop the vehicle, it will allow you to maintain some directional control of the vehicle. btw, anyone familiar with winter driving will know you should never try to brake "hard" on the slippery stuff.

story time: i went out on a nice dinner date a couple years ago in the winter. we had taken my truck because it's pretty much awesome no matter the road conditions. leaving the restaurant, to get back to the main road and then to the interstate i ended up going down a hill on a residential street. the hill was ICE. going slowly, hit the brakes gently and showed no signs of stopping before the stop sign. i turned the wheel to the right and ran up onto the snow bank to stop my truck before i slid out into traffic. no harm, no foul. i knew what was going on and how to correct it before things got out of hand, but the ABS helped in that situation.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by Maxim

I know there were some rally inspired cars that had the option to disable it. They also had gravel-mode for the brakes, which changed the threshold for the ABS system being activated. And I know a lot of trucks can have it turned off when enabling full 4x4 mode.

Yeah, a lot of the German brands do not allow fully defeating the stability control. I should know, I own one of them. But there is no law that says it must be so....it's just the byproduct of those cars regularly being driven very fast, and the particulars of the German climate, which gets pretty slick in the winter. (I live there...)

However, there are still german cars that allow it to be turned off. BMW is usually pretty good about this, and I believe that Audi is too (strange, considering that it's basically the same company as VW).

your still missing my point. none of that is LEGAL to be in the car, but most of it is standard.. and yes u can remove or obstruct the sensors on the ABS module and it should work fine and disable it (at least temporaraly) but point is there wont be a button in the dash that will turn it off..

[djohnson]

TCS seems to be fully defeatable with the push of a button in many passenger vehicles... The catch is once the speedo hits 15 mph its back on. But until then it is completely disabled (from my experience).

[Dark]

Originally Posted by NESW20

my MR2 has never had ABS and i've driven it in all conditions and never had any trouble. choosing proper tires is the key.



snow? debatable. ice? absolutely. and even if it doesn't necessarily stop the vehicle, it will allow you to maintain some directional control of the vehicle. btw, anyone familiar with winter driving will know you should never try to brake "hard" on the slippery stuff.

story time: i went out on a nice dinner date a couple years ago in the winter. we had taken my truck because it's pretty much awesome no matter the road conditions. leaving the restaurant, to get back to the main road and then to the interstate i ended up going down a hill on a residential street. the hill was ICE. going slowly, hit the brakes gently and showed no signs of stopping before the stop sign. i turned the wheel to the right and ran up onto the snow bank to stop my truck before i slid out into traffic. no harm, no foul. i knew what was going on and how to correct it before things got out of hand, but the ABS helped in that situation.

True, haha.
When I was a newbie, I tried it. I almost had to pay the price.

And for Ice surface, it can even make you fall when you walk. LOL

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by djohnson

TCS seems to be fully defeatable with the push of a button in many passenger vehicles... The catch is once the speedo hits 15 mph its back on. But until then it is completely disabled (from my experience).

in my rx8, you can switch it "off" (ie sort of turn it down) by pushing the button, or you can switch EVERYTHING off (dsc and tsc but NOT abs) if you hold the said button for 8 seconds (the dsc light comes on the dashboard and stays on flashing.. but to turn it back ON in the later case you need to turn the car off fully and start it again

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Toyota doesn't allow some of their vehicles to completely disable the stability control because frankly, they're driven by middle aged people who are interested in a nice, quiet, comfy vehicle and like the peace of mind. That's what Toyota has become. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that a performance model from toyota, the first in a long time, will not suffer from this. Toyota DOES know how to make a good performance car, they just haven't done it in a while.

Originally Posted by NESW20

my MR2 has never had ABS and i've driven it in all conditions and never had any trouble. choosing proper tires is the key.
...
story time:...

Originally Posted by 70NYD

in my rx8, you can switch it "off" (ie sort of turn it down) by pushing the button, or you can switch EVERYTHING off (dsc and tsc but NOT abs) if you hold the said button for 8 seconds (the dsc light comes on the dashboard and stays on flashing.. but to turn it back ON in the later case you need to turn the car off fully and start it again

Very good points. Middle age people tend to have children which will learn to drive at some point so the TC button only being partially "off" has a practical purpose. Although there should be a cheat code in the manual, so only the more motivated will even bother trying to disable the controls completely.

Tires are a bigger factor than which wheels power the car IMHO. Tall skinnies for Winter, and short fatties for spring, summer, and fall.

I am liking the RX-8 system, adding ABS to the list would be nice although some people would probably pick and choose which only complicates things.

[BoostJunkie]

It'd be nice to be Able to manually(by push button) turn on and off all driving aids(TC,SC,ABS, ect...)

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Very good points. Middle age people tend to have children which will learn to drive at some point so the TC button only being partially "off" has a practical purpose. Although there should be a cheat code in the manual, so only the more motivated will even bother trying to disable the controls completely.

Tires are a bigger factor than which wheels power the car IMHO. Tall skinnies for Winter, and short fatties for spring, summer, and fall.

I am liking the RX-8 system, adding ABS to the list would be nice although some people would probably pick and choose which only complicates things.

Tyres are the most important thing, and thats why The best option is when wheels only do one thing but. That's why I prefer rwd to anything really. Awd is good for slippery surfaces, but for anything else rwd

[djohnson]

Also another little thing, please NO ELECTRIC STEERING ASSIST. Case and point: