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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 01-09-2017, 05:53 PM   #99
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This is one of the reasons I have gone back to a twin. I may make mine faster, but the car is still pretty fun at 45mph, where as my P-cars not as much. Of course I live in flat and straight Oklahoma, if I had more twisties and hills I may feel different.
I think being in a big open space with little turning is indeed affecting your judgement. Newer Porsches can hold their own in a straight line, but we know where they shine is when you have to turn the wheel, same as our arguably underpowered twins. Sure, cruising the straight chunks of highways and turnpikes is pretty disengaged in either car, but when I autocross my Porsche, trying to keep grip through a turn while you're going 45mph is pretty intense and fun, and taking little backroad jaunts on twisty roads is great. With how easy it is for cars to make high factory horsepower numbers these days, it's understandable that people get disenchanted with it because they can't put it to use on the street without risk. To that I just say find local places to do some off road (courses, not like Jeep off-roading obviously lol) events where you're not limited by speed limits/curbs/pedestrians/traffic and get your money's worth from amazing machines, whether it's a Porsche or a Twin.

My problem is the bucket seats in my old Porsche leave much to be desired in how well they keep you in place. The bolstering needed for real vehicle tossing shenanigans just isn't there, but that's what $40k got you 20 years ago. My right knee is often bruised on the outside after a day of autocross from having to brace myself against the center dash piece during turns in an effort to keep myself from shifting around in the seat. The Twin puts those seats to shame with its ability to hold me, though I've really not put them to a similar test as the Porsche just yet...and I have padding for my knees in the Twin already in place as built, lol. When I can get it on the autocross course we'll see for sure, but even in normal driving the difference is already very apparent to me.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:56 AM   #100
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I think being in a big open space with little turning is indeed affecting your judgement. Newer Porsches can hold their own in a straight line, but we know where they shine is when you have to turn the wheel, same as our arguably underpowered twins. Sure, cruising the straight chunks of highways and turnpikes is pretty disengaged in either car, but when I autocross my Porsche, trying to keep grip through a turn while you're going 45mph is pretty intense and fun, and taking little backroad jaunts on twisty roads is great. With how easy it is for cars to make high factory horsepower numbers these days, it's understandable that people get disenchanted with it because they can't put it to use on the street without risk. To that I just say find local places to do some off road (courses, not like Jeep off-roading obviously lol) events where you're not limited by speed limits/curbs/pedestrians/traffic and get your money's worth from amazing machines, whether it's a Porsche or a Twin.

.
I agree with this, but my statement was vague so let me be more clear with what i was trying to convey. Roads around me are straight, so most of the time when i am feeling a car turn is on interchanges or entrances/exits on or off a highway. I never have a chance to be close to the P-cars limits. Yes i have AX'd 4 different Porsches, and when pushed hard at 45mph they are fun around a 50ft radiius turn. But when on the road the BRZ, is easier to have fun in. My porsches and myself are bored going 50mph on the road, but no so much in the BRZ. Thats all i am saying. So I wasnt challenging P-cars strightline ability. I was just saying my turns are far and few between, and its easier to savor the handling in a BRZ, than a Porsche while on the road.

Basically, my family has grown, and i have less time to enjoy cars. I still make it to the track about 7 or 8 times a year. But by going back to a BRZ, i can now have fun while driving amoung the mundane, asleep at the wheel drivers i live by. Where as in my former P-cars it was harder to find a place to have fun. Couple that with money saved from owning a Subie compared to a 987/981 and its a win-win for me and my family. But there will be porsches in our future.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:33 AM   #101
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I get what you're saying, don't think I misunderstood, though I may have unintentionally come off sort of lecture-y. I don't disagree with you. I think if you had roads where you can take turns at those higher speeds and it wasn't just things like on-ramps, you'd have your fun at 50mph, but realistically that's a rare thing for anyone who doesn't live on a mountain. 50 in a straight line is boring, period. I'm looking forward to the spring and summer so I can take both cars on the same roads and see if the younger Twin beats my old Porsche on the excitement level.
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Old 01-10-2017, 12:24 PM   #102
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I have a 2016 vette and an older vette. My older vette was a money pit. I would not buy a used vette and definitely would not buy a used Porsche. I have a dead Porsche in my driveway sitting next to my dead older vette. I got sick of throwing money at both of them and did say f%&* it and bought a new one.

That said, if I didn't have the funds for the new vette, I would get the BRZ.
Way to submit a drive-by bash some cars comment with no factual information.

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Old 01-10-2017, 03:30 PM   #103
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I may have unintentionally come off sort of lecture-y.
Porsche drivers.^^^^^
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:58 PM   #104
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Definitely don't fit the stereotypes, but nicely done. Really though, I actually drive mine. I intend to get my money's worth, and the previous owner's money's worth, too.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:49 AM   #105
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I wonder if I will be disappointed when I finally drive a Cayman? I think it might be the best sports car period. I sometimes wonder if critics give Porsche too much props as my boss picked up a Panamera a few months back and I remember critics making this car out to be the "driver's car of 4 door cars". It was one of the worst experiences ever! Horrible steering and felt no different than a typical luxury car. I prefer my co workers 07 G35 sedan to the Panamera even though the G35 was still a not so great car either. I also have this feeling like I would like a Alfa 4C more than a Cayman before driving both.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:32 AM   #106
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I wonder if I will be disappointed when I finally drive a Cayman?
I couldnt answer this for you, no one can. I have driven my fair amount of P-Cars, and some have delighted me and some were only just fun.

I can tell you this though, a test drive, hell 5 test drives will not be enough to fully appreciate the characteristics of any sports(i use the term loosely) car. This also depends on where you are in your car journey(soul searching). If you have track experience or not (and how much), if your a HP freak,etc.

I have owned 3 different Caymans, and ran them all on the track and in different configurations. The Cayman specs are nothing to be excited about, but i doubt you will find a cheaper car for the money that can perform (and teach the driver) on the track as well as it does (hint: better that spec sheets show) and can still be a perfect driving machine on most roads. Its balanced and designed to take the abuse from the occasional track day with no real problems. The beauty of most Porsches is not in the cars levels of performance. Its in the balance of performance/drivability/robustness. That being said, all cars are machines and machines will break and require maintenance. But go grab several 60k cars and run them hard non-stop on a track see which ones fail first. A p-car should be one the last to fail. However, that may not mean much to the guy who just drives a Porsche around town.

This was all a long way of saying, whether you are impressed or disappointed by a Cayman...depends more on you than the car itself. And Caymans are not for everyone.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:03 AM   #107
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I wonder if I will be disappointed when I finally drive a Cayman? I think it might be the best sports car period. I sometimes wonder if critics give Porsche too much props as my boss picked up a Panamera a few months back and I remember critics making this car out to be the "driver's car of 4 door cars". It was one of the worst experiences ever! Horrible steering and felt no different than a typical luxury car. I prefer my co workers 07 G35 sedan to the Panamera even though the G35 was still a not so great car either. I also have this feeling like I would like a Alfa 4C more than a Cayman before driving both.
You have to have the right expectations. I think of it as more of a sharp-handling GT car, because the interior is so nice and the car is so comfortable.

When you drive it, it's more appropriate to think of it as a luxury car that happens to be low, relatively light, makes a great sound, and has exceptional grip. There are many many places where they added lots of weight and numbed things down to make the car more quiet and comfortable. It is not a Miata or S2000 or MR2, but it is pretty fast and fast is fun.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:58 AM   #108
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Yeah there really is no such thing as the 'perfect sports car' for everyone, extremely subjective. I guarantee you my old 73 911s would NOT please everyone (my wife called it 'the lawnmower'). But I absolutely loved it, despite being 'relatively' slow, having a vague shifter, unsophisticated suspension, etc. It's sort of why I like my FR-S, it's a more visceral car (especially when modified) despite its shortcomings. No doubt a modern Cayman is a better engineered car from top to bottom - better suspension, better interior, better motor sound (6 cylinder anyway), more power. It's a great car for the person who wants to buy and drive, and has the money to pay when it breaks or gets damaged. The FR-S is better suited for people who want to make the car 'their own', a tweaker's car. Despite the less sophisticated suspension design, with a minor investment in suspension & motor (RCE Tarmac 2's, camber adjustment, alignment, headers) it's a hugely fun car to drive. Also to note, there's the 'beater' factor. Not that the FR-S/BRZ is a beater in any way, but I definitely feel less sad when someone inevitably puts a dent in my car (vs. driving something really expensive). I also feel less guilty daily driving it every day & am more apt to push the limit at track events. YMMV - this is a really subjective....subject
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:16 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by brzaapi View Post
I couldnt answer this for you, no one can. I have driven my fair amount of P-Cars, and some have delighted me and some were only just fun.

I can tell you this though, a test drive, hell 5 test drives will not be enough to fully appreciate the characteristics of any sports(i use the term loosely) car. This also depends on where you are in your car journey(soul searching). If you have track experience or not (and how much), if your a HP freak,etc.

I have owned 3 different Caymans, and ran them all on the track and in different configurations. The Cayman specs are nothing to be excited about, but i doubt you will find a cheaper car for the money that can perform (and teach the driver) on the track as well as it does (hint: better that spec sheets show) and can still be a perfect driving machine on most roads. Its balanced and designed to take the abuse from the occasional track day with no real problems. The beauty of most Porsches is not in the cars levels of performance. Its in the balance of performance/drivability/robustness. That being said, all cars are machines and machines will break and require maintenance. But go grab several 60k cars and run them hard non-stop on a track see which ones fail first. A p-car should be one the last to fail. However, that may not mean much to the guy who just drives a Porsche around town.

This was all a long way of saying, whether you are impressed or disappointed by a Cayman...depends more on you than the car itself. And Caymans are not for everyone.
Amen. Well said.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:17 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
You have to have the right expectations. I think of it as more of a sharp-handling GT car, because the interior is so nice and the car is so comfortable.

When you drive it, it's more appropriate to think of it as a luxury car that happens to be low, relatively light, makes a great sound, and has exceptional grip. There are many many places where they added lots of weight and numbed things down to make the car more quiet and comfortable. It is not a Miata or S2000 or MR2, but it is pretty fast and fast is fun.
I do wish the Cayman wasn't as isolated as it is, but the 987 is far less isolated than the 981. And it's not isolated where it counts, with steering wheel feedback.

Really the only mod I'm desperate to perform on my car is a more free flowing exhaust with a louder, more exotic engine note.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:32 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by brzaapi View Post
I couldnt answer this for you, no one can. I have driven my fair amount of P-Cars, and some have delighted me and some were only just fun.

I can tell you this though, a test drive, hell 5 test drives will not be enough to fully appreciate the characteristics of any sports(i use the term loosely) car. This also depends on where you are in your car journey(soul searching). If you have track experience or not (and how much), if your a HP freak,etc.

I have owned 3 different Caymans, and ran them all on the track and in different configurations. The Cayman specs are nothing to be excited about, but i doubt you will find a cheaper car for the money that can perform (and teach the driver) on the track as well as it does (hint: better that spec sheets show) and can still be a perfect driving machine on most roads. Its balanced and designed to take the abuse from the occasional track day with no real problems. The beauty of most Porsches is not in the cars levels of performance. Its in the balance of performance/drivability/robustness. That being said, all cars are machines and machines will break and require maintenance. But go grab several 60k cars and run them hard non-stop on a track see which ones fail first. A p-car should be one the last to fail. However, that may not mean much to the guy who just drives a Porsche around town.

This was all a long way of saying, whether you are impressed or disappointed by a Cayman...depends more on you than the car itself. And Caymans are not for everyone.
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Originally Posted by bfrank1972 View Post
Yeah there really is no such thing as the 'perfect sports car' for everyone, extremely subjective. I guarantee you my old 73 911s would NOT please everyone (my wife called it 'the lawnmower'). But I absolutely loved it, despite being 'relatively' slow, having a vague shifter, unsophisticated suspension, etc. It's sort of why I like my FR-S, it's a more visceral car (especially when modified) despite its shortcomings. No doubt a modern Cayman is a better engineered car from top to bottom - better suspension, better interior, better motor sound (6 cylinder anyway), more power. It's a great car for the person who wants to buy and drive, and has the money to pay when it breaks or gets damaged. The FR-S is better suited for people who want to make the car 'their own', a tweaker's car. Despite the less sophisticated suspension design, with a minor investment in suspension & motor (RCE Tarmac 2's, camber adjustment, alignment, headers) it's a hugely fun car to drive. Also to note, there's the 'beater' factor. Not that the FR-S/BRZ is a beater in any way, but I definitely feel less sad when someone inevitably puts a dent in my car (vs. driving something really expensive). I also feel less guilty daily driving it every day & am more apt to push the limit at track events. YMMV - this is a really subjective....subject
These^^^
Some of the most fun I ever had in a car was an old Karmann Ghia. 0 to 60 in about 45 minutes but still a blast to drive since it made YOU do the work to get anything out of it and that is driving I enjoy. What one person wants out of a car can sometimes raise nothing but contempt out of another person so to say there is the "perfect" car for all would be an injustice.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:30 PM   #112
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Amen. Well said.

Thanks.

I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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