When am I lugging?

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by radroach

@Da Brz

No, that clattering is your flywheel rattling against your pressure plate. Downshift to 1st before that happens. It's not hard to downshift to 1st under 10 mph. I also noticed you've made posts about your car knocking when coming to a stop. Perhaps you are keeping your rpms too low. I think the lowest rpms you should cruise at safely should be about 2500 rpm. There's no reason to almost lug this engine just for muh mpg's when it runs efficiently enough when driven right.

The knocking when coming to a stop is when the car is in neutral and the clutch out, actually.

It also knocks at idle with the clutch out sometimes.

[D_Thissen]

12 mph in 3rd gear?! Please don't tell me you floor it when the rpm are that low. Turn your 'upshift' indicator on. It'll let you know when you shift for best fuel economy. As far as your question, anything under ~1500rpm I would say your lugging the engine. Also you're not going to 'over rev' this car unless you go north of 7200rpm. If you can keep it between 3000 and 7000, you'll be fine.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Oh, I'm not so sure your engine likes that. The engine in my car seems to like being at 3,000 rpms or above .......once it gets warmed up.




humfrz

I leave my shift indicator on and going easy down the 40 mph road I work on, it tells me to go into sixth around 38 or so and that's about 1700rpm.

Keeping it at 3k or above at all times would require a lot of clutch modulation, I'd imagine. Like a motorcycle. Sounds like a good way to burn up a clutch early.

You have to remember your throttle input is a factor. If you're only using enough throttle to remain at speed, you may as well use the most efficient gear. Just shift down before accelerating.

I've never burned up a clutch in 20 years of driving and 5 different DD stick shifts.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by radroach

@Da Brz

No, that clattering is your flywheel rattling against your pressure plate. Downshift to 1st before that happens. It's not hard to downshift to 1st under 10 mph. I also noticed you've made posts about your car knocking when coming to a stop. Perhaps you are keeping your rpms too low. I think the lowest rpms you should cruise at safely should be about 2500 rpm. There's no reason to almost lug this engine just for muh mpg's when it runs efficiently enough when driven right.

Mine never wants to go into first without being <5mph.

And IMO, if the engine's own tune allows it to run low enough to knock at idle and when coming to a stop, then I don't mind letting it happen a bit while modulating a tight spot in the parking lot.

I mean, even first will do it, too, in the right situations. Again, it doesn't even have to be in gear to do it! lol

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I leave my shift indicator on and going easy down the 40 mph road I work on, it tells me to go into sixth around 38 or so and that's about 1700rpm.

Keeping it at 3k or above at all times would require a lot of clutch modulation, I'd imagine. Like a motorcycle. Sounds like a good way to burn up a clutch early.

You have to remember your throttle input is a factor. If you're only using enough throttle to remain at speed, you may as well use the most efficient gear. Just shift down before accelerating.

I've never burned up a clutch in 20 years of driving and 5 different DD stick shifts.

How does keeping the revs up require more clutch than keeping them low?

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How does keeping the revs up require more clutch than keeping them low?

I guess if you don't mind looking obnoxious, it doesn't.

Most of the time, if you're in too low a gear and running high rpm, the vehicle will buck some.

That's why clutch modulation is a necessity on a motorcycle. And why they have a wet clutch.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How does keeping the revs up require more clutch than keeping them low?

I don't want to get into a fight about how best to negotiate low speeds in these cars.

I just want to point out that you guys running 55mph in your cars at 3k rpm or whatever don't need to do that and are basically just being wasteful.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I leave my shift indicator on and going easy down the 40 mph road I work on, it tells me to go into sixth around 38 or so and that's about 1700rpm.

Keeping it at 3k or above at all times would require a lot of clutch modulation, I'd imagine. Like a motorcycle. Sounds like a good way to burn up a clutch early.

You have to remember your throttle input is a factor. If you're only using enough throttle to remain at speed, you may as well use the most efficient gear. Just shift down before accelerating.

I've never burned up a clutch in 20 years of driving and 5 different DD stick shifts.

First off, I disagree with the shift indicator ....... that's the reason I don't activate mine.....

More clutch modulation at above 3000 rpms ??........ I think you got that backwards ......

YOU have to remember ??........ I may be old ...... and my short term memory ain't what it used to be ....... but ...... I do remember how to use the throttle ....... most of the time ......

Well, after driving clutched things since I was 5 years old ...... that would be .... wait one till I consult with my paper and pencil ........ roughly, 69 years, I have never burned up a clutch.

When you start off shifting thinks like this, pulling heavy stuff ...... you get and remember clutch/gas things real well .....


humfrz

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by humfrz

First off, I disagree with the shift indicator ....... that's the reason I don't activate mine.....

More clutch modulation at above 3000 rpms ??........ I think you got that backwards ......

YOU have to remember ??........ I may be old ...... and my short term memory ain't what it used to be ....... but ...... I do remember how to use the throttle ....... most of the time ......

Well, after driving clutched things since I was 5 years old ...... that would be .... wait one till I consult with my paper and pencil ........ roughly, 69 years, I have never burned up a clutch.

When you start off shifting thinks like this, pulling heavy stuff ...... you get and remember clutch/gas things real well .....


humfrz

I can drive a tractor too! High five.

And if you're so experienced (which I believe you are), you should already know that too high an rpm makes low speed stuff tricky which requires clutch modulation. If you go too fast in first, you get a herky-jerky throttle. You should know that.

To illustrate by exaggeration, imagine trying to navigate a parking lot with the throttle stuck at 7 grand. You think that's going to be a smooth experience without slipping the clutch some?

And as for the shift indicator, well, I trust the engineers at Subaru (a little) but, again, to me, it all comes down to listening to the engine. Is my motor trying to hop forward and die at 1700 rpm? No. Is it even struggling or knocking? No. Sounds to me like it's doing just fine. Gear down to romp and you'll be fine.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I guess if you don't mind looking obnoxious, it doesn't.

Most of the time, if you're in too low a gear and running high rpm, the vehicle will buck some.

That's why clutch modulation is a necessity on a motorcycle. And why they have a wet clutch.

No. If you are in too high a gear and your revs are too low the car will buck. Higher revs in a lower gear should give you a nice smoother acceleration or cruise.
We are not talking about motorcycles here.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No. If you are in too high a gear and your revs are too low the car will buck. Higher revs in a lower gear should give you a nice smoother acceleration or cruise.
We are not talking about motorcycles here.

Which is called lugging. Something I'm not suggesting or doing.

This is one of those things where if you could ride around with me, you'd say, "Okay, yeah, not my style, but sure."

But since that's not happening we're just gonna have to let this drop.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I don't want to get into a fight about how best to negotiate low speeds in these cars.

I just want to point out that you guys running 55mph in your cars at 3k rpm or whatever don't need to do that and are basically just being wasteful.

55mph at 3K is just about where you want to be for good economy. Lower RPMs do not always equate better mileage.
Driving around pushing the stall speeds all the time will damage the car and cost more in the long run than driving in the proper gear at the recommended RPMs.


If you want to lower the RPMs to just about stall and drive around thinking you are saving $20 a year then there are better alternatives.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I can drive a tractor too! High five.

And if you're so experienced (which I believe you are), you should already know that too high an rpm makes low speed stuff tricky which requires clutch modulation. If you go too fast in first, you get a herky-jerky throttle. You should know that.

To illustrate by exaggeration, imagine trying to navigate a parking lot with the throttle stuck at 7 grand. You think that's going to be a smooth experience without slipping the clutch some?

And as for the shift indicator, well, I trust the engineers at Subaru (a little) but, again, to me, it all comes down to listening to the engine. Is my motor trying to hop forward and die at 1700 rpm? No. Is it even struggling or knocking? No. Sounds to me like it's doing just fine. Gear down to romp and you'll be fine.

Nobody is saying to drive around a parking lot at 7K. They are saying to do it between 2 and 3K.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I can drive a tractor too! High five........

Suuuuuunnnnnnn .......

OK, you just back up to your machine to my old machine ...... wait one while I build up a head of steam ....... and I'll pull your machine into the next county .......

(wait for it in the video)




humfrz