How to screw up your cars handling and ride - step by step!

[Racecomp Engineering]

Good tires (not necessarily the stickiest tires)
ALIGNMENT
A few key bushings (steering rack, rear diff, rear subframe)
Swaybars (reasonably sized for your application)

[churchx]

Jajanken86: there are examples to both good and bad. Eg. good performance alignment may add to car's handling. Some tire/wheel choices for sake of looks may decrease car performance/handling. None "requires" lowering.

[Jajanken86]

If you were to eventually get all these things improved, is there a recommended order this should happen?

Sent from my iDroid

[churchx]

There is no "best" for everybody. For better advises/suggestions worth first stating your wishes/expectations/goals/budget more detailed. That will affect what should be done, to what extent, and how much it may cost. Imho it's worth to ask in RCE/CSG suspension QA tag thread though, as this particular thread serves more as warning to not do some bad mistakes in "tuning" even while goal might be to net something opposite to result of those mistakes.

[Decep]

So technically speaking, are MPSS/PS4S *too* sticky for stock springs and dampers? Thinking about it, i would think the much higher grip levels give you a lot more pitch and roll.

[Mr.ac]

Originally Posted by Decep

So technically speaking, are MPSS/PS4S *too* sticky for stock springs and dampers? Thinking about it, i would think the much higher grip levels give you a lot more pitch and roll.

Lol for reals? No where near too sticky.
They are just over priced summer/all season tires. If your paid anywhere near $130+ Per tire you got suckered.

[Decep]

They are way stickier than stock tires. Also why would you call them all season when there are reports of PS4s cracking when temps drop below 30? lol.

[DarkPira7e]

I forgot a cardinal rule and put some 24lb per corner wheels on the car. It took until I went back to my 16" 17lb wheels with winter tires to feel the difference. Reminded me what makes the car fun!!! Now selling them. I'll give up some grip to have the fun back in this car for next summer! Who wants to front me some RPF1s? Nobody? Guess I'll be -that guy- showing up to the autocross on stock 2002 wrx wheels...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Decep

They are way stickier than stock tires. Also why would you call them all season when there are reports of PS4s cracking when temps drop below 30? lol.

Wait until you try stickier (and if you wore out there stock tires or if they're a few years old you only remember how they felt recently, not how they were when they were fresh), they're certainly a few steps up the ladder but not even in the ballpark of the fast street tires once those get some temperature in them.

fwiw people used to enjoy putting 60 treadwear Hoosiers on other cars with stock suspensions, Miatas, Civics, RX8s etc. and driving those hard on the weekends, MPSS is nowhere near what they're talking about.

And reread the post, you'll go faster with super sticky tires, it's not bad to put them on, it'll just feel a lot different than the modest street tires the car was designed around. That point is really more about how bad a crap tire will be with a stiff suspension and how it's a spectrum and you can mismatch either way.

[Decep]

not even talking about racing slicks, and im not saying pilot sports are racing tires, just that they're much better than stock. just thinking aloud here. if you can pull an extra 0.1G or so in a MPS4s tire versus stock you're putting a lot of extra load on the soft factory suspension.

[guybo]

Originally Posted by Decep

So technically speaking, are MPSS/PS4S *too* sticky for stock springs and dampers? Thinking about it, i would think the much higher grip levels give you a lot more pitch and roll.

I get no extra roll that I notice. I can still make the MPSS slide if I want (but there again, I only went up to a 225 width on 17" tires- I didn't go overboard with tire size).

IMHO It's not so much that the MPSS are too sticky, they have a more appropriate amount of grip for the car. The OEM tires have too little grip. I got rid of the OEM tires as much as anything because, though they were fun, they were also dangerous. The wet grip was so lacking, several times I thought I was going to get in an accident in very heavy rain.

[churchx]

"too little grip" is arguable. That "little" of primacies is more then grip of most average family cars, that one can go in roundabouts at slower speeds prior starting slipping vs twins even on "prius tires". No race stuff, but 0.89g on skid pad doesn't look to me "bad" at all. Fact, that manufacturers intentionally chose stock tires of limited grip for ease of power oversteer or more playfulness at slower/legal speeds and even with lack of stock NA power doesn't make car even with primacies bad/unperforming, and doesn't make grippier tires "how it should come from factory", as there are different people, different preferences. There are some, that dislike any hint of skidding and think that car should grip-wise tramlining, and there are some, that after trying out grippier tires reverted to less grippy ones to get playfulness back, or claimed that they prefered that lack of grip versus higher grip levels of some other cars stock, exactly because those others were too boring to drive at legal speed limits, but pushing them as much as twins in stock forms would result in license suspension or impounded car due much higher speeds to approach pushing limits. Imho too aggressive throttle presses or lack of accel inputs finesse != lack of grip.

[Racecomp Engineering]

buuuuuuuuump

[Bluefire98]

Neat thread. I just replaced my stock wheels that had cheapo all season tires installed from the dealer (bought my car used at 42k miles) with some 225/45r17 firehawk indy 500's on some 17x8 +35 tsw's. I don't feel I've overtired the car but some response was lost a bit compared to the old tires even after a few hundred break-in miles. My car goes in for an alignment hopefully next week so I think that should help (installing the oem crash bolts too) but I'm kinda worried that alone won't get the response to the level I want. Seems like some people say springs are the answer? Just curious what methods are out their to increase the steering response of this car with some grippier tires.