Alignment opinions

[Jajanken86]

How much of a camber difference side to side is tolerable until it affects handling or tire wear? I'm not sure what safe margins of error look like for alignments

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Jajanken86

How much of a camber difference side to side is tolerable until it affects handling or tire wear? I'm not sure what safe margins of error look like for alignments

Can you feel the difference now?
Is it different in a straight line?
Does it feel different starting a turn? ...in the middle of a turn?


I ask because, unless you're shooting for some optimum this, or that, it's all about feel.

[Jajanken86]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Can you feel the difference now?
Is it different in a straight line?
Does it feel different starting a turn? ...in the middle of a turn?


I ask because, unless you're shooting for some optimum this, or that, it's all about feel.

Hmm I haven't driven enough to be able to say too much, but so far the wheel feels lighter when turning in, and grip feels balanced. Pre alignment was surely more understeer, and now it's simply neutral, not oversteer biased as well.

I used to be able to feel the steering wheel get a little more tense when it's about to understeer, but yeah gotta drive more to see if that feeling remains and what other changes I notice.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Jajanken86

Hmm I haven't driven enough to be able to say too much, but so far the wheel feels lighter when turning in, and grip feels balanced. Pre alignment was surely more understeer, and now it's simply neutral, not oversteer biased as well.

I used to be able to feel the steering wheel get a little more tense when it's about to understeer, but yeah gotta drive more to see if that feeling remains and what other changes I notice.

This goes into the difference in camber. Unless it translates into a tangible difference in its eagerness to turn in one direction over the other, I wouldn't sweat it.

Hopefully others will chime in. It's a fascinating topic. Way better than masturbating over dyno charts.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Jajanken86

How much of a camber difference side to side is tolerable until it affects handling or tire wear? I'm not sure what safe margins of error look like for alignments

Depending how much of a hurry I am an and which side is off I like to keep it within .2 degree. You won’t see significant camber wear until you are at or over 3 degrees.

[Jajanken86]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Depending how much of a hurry I am an and which side is off I like to keep it within .2 degree. You won’t see significant camber wear until you are at or over 3 degrees.

What's a tolerable difference in toe and caster?

[churchx]

caster or camber? Many often ignore former and use whatever there is, concentrating on camber, and toe. And just as camber angle values overall are usually on order or more then toe, same with their evenness. I'd prefer side to side camber differences be below 0.3dg, and toe, less then 0.02degrees (ideally same). Even small toe changes are often most noticeable in handling, and so is unevenness of it, be it non straight tracking, or not driving straight when car looses traction, or different car behavior in right vs left turns. Camber unevenness by "butt dyno" is often felt only at way larger deltas.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Jajanken86

What's a tolerable difference in toe and caster?

Caster is not adjustable without either Raceng CasCam plates, or adjustable front LCA's so I don't even check it.

Toe I try to get as close as possible though in the rear of the car I will tolerate up to an 1/8 of toe in. Toe out is a no go. It is difficult on the rear of the car as the position of the toe arm means that camber has a big effect on toe and it is PITA to do from the floor.

[Qwimby1]

I'm trying to get more responsive turn-in which I think I should be able to do with camber bolts and something around -1.5 to -1.7 for a car that is mostly street driven. Without the bolts I'm running only -.2. My wrench doesn't think I'll notice much but I have to think there'd be some improvement. I really like the car, but have never liked the disconnected feel of the electric steering. Can't imagine anything can be done about that.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Qwimby1

I'm trying to get more responsive turn-in which I think I should be able to do with camber bolts and something around -1.5 to -1.7 for a car that is mostly street driven. Without the bolts I'm running only -.2. My wrench doesn't think I'll notice much but I have to think there'd be some improvement. I really like the car, but have never liked the disconnected feel of the electric steering. Can't imagine anything can be done about that.

For what it's worth, going to a lower offset wheel (I'm running 17x8" ET35's) along with 1 degree more negative camber in front improved the weight of the steering for me, if not the "feel". On the stock PP wheels, it felt too light, like the front was floating, even with the camber change.

[cueball89]

Originally Posted by Qwimby1

I'm trying to get more responsive turn-in which I think I should be able to do with camber bolts and something around -1.5 to -1.7 for a car that is mostly street driven. Without the bolts I'm running only -.2. My wrench doesn't think I'll notice much but I have to think there'd be some improvement. I really like the car, but have never liked the disconnected feel of the electric steering. Can't imagine anything can be done about that.

Putting an oem crash bolt in the upper strut hole makes a difference and gets you around -1 degree up front. You can add an eccentric camber bolt to the lower strut hole and get even more camber.

Steering rack bushings will give a little more steering feel.

Also helps to be on a good set of summer tires.

[Qwimby1]

Originally Posted by cueball89

Putting an oem crash bolt in the upper strut hole makes a difference and gets you around -1 degree up front. You can add an eccentric camber bolt to the lower strut hole and get even more camber.

Steering rack bushings will give a little more steering feel.

Also helps to be on a good set of summer tires.

Good points. Thanks. I'm impressed by the Firestone Indy 500 tires I'm running.

[Capt Spaulding]

My order of mods was Whiteline rack bushings - camber bolts - alignment - 225 Conti ECS tires and 17x8 et 40 wheels.

The camber bolts set to -1.5 degrees on stock rubber made the most noticeable difference in turn-in. The wheels and tires slowed things down a fraction, which I expected. Each made for a much more planted front end. The Contis made for a more stable rear end.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Qwimby1

I'm trying to get more responsive turn-in which I think I should be able to do with camber bolts and something around -1.5 to -1.7 for a car that is mostly street driven. Without the bolts I'm running only -.2. My wrench doesn't think I'll notice much but I have to think there'd be some improvement. I really like the car, but have never liked the disconnected feel of the electric steering. Can't imagine anything can be done about that.

I didn't notice steering rack bushings at all.
If you're toed in up front that will hurt responsiveness, I like zero toe and don't notice any feel difference of toe out.
More caster will add steering weight, that takes lca or specific camber plates.
Wider wheels+tires add steering weight, I don't really notice 5-10mm of wheel offset change.
Adding camber adds maximum grip up front, if you're not sliding the front end experiencing under steer you're probably not going to notice a change with another degree of camber.

The only thing I've experienced that changed responsiveness was toe. There are things you can do to add weight to the steering, but that doesn't correlate to responsiveness imho. I never really felt like the steering was disconnected, just a reasonable amount of assist.