Subaru & Toyota - Who engineered what?

[jebuwh]

That part at the end is so cool where he says he hopes everyone builds their own FRS and customizes it to enjoy for many years.

That is why I bought this freakin car. Awesome.

[funwheeldrive]

Every time I get into my car I realize how much time went into perfecting it. Everything is always in harmony when I drive it.

[Maritime Storm]

We spend too much time on the things we wish we had, instead of focusing on the great thing we have. We have a light, nimble 200hp car that will hold a weeks worth of groceries or a road trip in the trunk, will squeak out 0-60 in a touch over 6 seconds, gets 40IMPG on the highway while having the desire to go around every turn we want it to sideways while liquifying a set of tires, sitting in our driveway for a price we can afford. Who really cares that that trim piece is Subaru instead of Toyota or vice-versa.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Reaper

there are literally hundreds of posts on multiple threads about this. Can we delete this thread?

Pretty sure this has been said before. Can we delete your post?

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by AznKirby

It's not about being a douchebag, it's about having the common sense to search things up before asking people.
Have a little autonomy; it is the internet, after all.

Common sense is great and all, if you're using the exact terminology everyone else thinks you should be using. We've all tried searching for things within the forum and come up empty handed, and many of us are decades-old forum veterans that know all the etiquette through and through. Getting to know the individual forum and other various search tricks takes some time.

Anyways, there's also this, posted as a Sticky in the GT86 general forum:
The FRS Development Story

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Realizing you are new here sure I'll repost some stuff that's been well covered...


Tetsuya Tada (Tada San) from Toyota designed it actually and its well documented. The looks alone do not scream Subaru in any way at all... "2 minute mark and on in first video below)

In end the twins are a hodge podge, Subaru almost was not involved and at last minute committed to their involvement with the motor etc. Esthetically all you see exterior and interior was all designed by Toyota, made at Subarus factory as it had room to do it and Toyota owns a % of Subaru as well, If Toyota engineer had not had the vision this car would not exist. I love both the FRS/BRZ btw...(3 minutes and on in first video below)

Here is an old video but you can see the background on the design the idea and what cars it was based on in Toyotas design.

Interview: ( watch all way through for facts)

Another Short:

Thank you for reposting those! Makes me realize again why I bought this car. The fact that they developed this car not relying on sports tires was a big selling point to me. Because everybody is naturally going to slap a stickier set of tires on this car...

[paros28]

Originally Posted by Maritime Storm

We spend too much time on the things we wish we had, instead of focusing on the great thing we have...

It's human nature to take what we have for granted and to want things we cannot have. There'll always be someone with more money, bigger house, faster car, etc. However, we will never find happiness until we learn to appreciate the thing we have. Here we have a car that is built from the ground up as a sports car and we can buy it without breaking the bank. I feel privileged to have one in my garage.

[TheAsianRacer]

Thanks for the reposting of those videos. It was worth watching and who cares if there is another thread, forums are where people can ask questions and have them answered. If you don't like questions coming back up, why be on a forum? People are irritated by stupid things too easily nowadays.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by paulca

This is how I understood it. Always annoyed me when people say it's a Subaru. It's a Toyota with a Subaru drive train built by Fuji Heavy Industries.

As I understand it anyway.

And Subaru suspension, nuts, bolts, screws...damn near every single piece of this car came out of a Subaru parts bin. I'm not sure why those facts would annoy anyone.

Unless I have forgotten something I believe here are about 5 parts on this car NOT from Subaru. Hell, even the Scion badges on the front and back say Subaru on them(the side you don't see).

Toyota parts:

key
annoying high pressure fuel pump
direct injection system
(forgot the other tiny parts)

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

And Subaru suspension, nuts, bolts, screws...damn near every single piece of this car came out of a Subaru parts bin. I'm not sure why those facts would annoy anyone.

Unless I have forgotten something I believe here are about 5 parts on this car NOT from Subaru. Hell, even the Scion badges on the front and back say Subaru on them(the side you don't see).

Toyota parts:

key
annoying high pressure fuel pump
direct injection system
(forgot the other tiny parts)

If you got the dual HVAC, that whole piece is a Denso unit which I don't ever recall seeing Denso components on my previous Impreza(this might've changed). The non dual HVAC knobs are found on cheap Toyotas rather than any Subarus so that also is almost certainly a Toyota supplied part. IIRC the airbags in these cars are also supplied by Toyota. Transmissions are also Toyota supplied as they're both Aisin units. These are the only other obvious ones I know of.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

If you got the dual HVAC, that whole piece is a Denso unit which I don't ever recall seeing Denso components on my previous Impreza(this might've changed). The non dual HVAC knobs are found on cheap Toyotas rather than any Subarus so that also is almost certainly a Toyota supplied part. IIRC the airbags in these cars are also supplied by Toyota. Transmissions are also Toyota supplied as they're both Aisin units. These are the only other obvious ones I know of.

The question was essentially: is the car more Toyota or Subaru?

Denso and Aisin are neither Toyota or Subaru as those parts can and are found in any make of vehicle. Using only Toy or Sub as the options, clearly one has significantly more content than the other, in this case it's Subaru with a huge huge huge majority of the parts. The entire engine minus those 2 pieces(and obviously the little electronic shit on the engine that numerous other companies mass produce for everyone).

The car is more Subaru than anything else and therefore I expect Subaru(NOT Toyota) reliability from it. The tranny will be as good as any identical Aisin regardless of make/model of vehicle.

If Toyota simply purchased the complete engine from Subaru and did everything else themselves, the car would not be identical to what we bought. Obviously it would be the same on the outside since Toyota did design it, but the engineering wouldn't be identical.

If Toyotas hand in the engineering phase were so great and influential, then there wouldn't have been a need for Subaru engineers, why double the paychecks? Subaru would still be the provider of the engine, suspension, etc., and the people who assembled everything in that scenario. Subaru was hired to engineer it so that Toyota didn't have to have a full team of engineer employed, or again, they'd have done everything themselves minus the assembly.

So as far as Toy vs Sub:

Toyota:
designed shape of car(awesome)
paid for project(thanks sugar pop)
provided handful important parts(HPFP, DI)
watched/advised during the engineering phase

Subaru:
performed the entire engineering phase(with handful of Toyota guys looking over shoulder)
performed the entire construction phase down to the last nut/bolt
designed and built the engine
the suspension

So who really did the meat of the work? All those Subaru folks or the guys from Toyota who TOLD Subara what to do and what Toy wanted, then watched/advised along the way? That's how I look at it. MacArthur gave orders and made the battle plan, but his army did the work.

Thank Toyota for the plan, thank Subaru for the end result.

[paulca]

Who designs it, who builds it, who makes it are arguably different things.

Consider OS/2 the operating system from IBM... built by Microsoft.
OSX... is it Berkley Software Division or Apple? Is the iPhone Apple or Qualcomm?
Seat, Audi, VW etc. are all mostly made by the same German motor group.

If the car was 100% designed and commissioned by Toyota (not saying it was) but the parts and construction sourced and carried out by Subaru, does that make the car Toyota or Subaru?

It's a tricky one., but with other examples from many other industries (all outsourcing to each other) it would tend towards Toyota.

If I am employed by company X and I write software on contract for company Y, then it is usually, company Y's software.

[djmm]

But as in a car with all parts working together (ie engine, drivetrains, brakes, and Whatnots) is it actually good that the car is mainly Subaru?

I know Toyota is a tried and tested brand for reliability but I'm not sure of Subaru and it's boxer engine as no one in my family has a Subaru.

[paulca]

It's Japanese that's the main thing. On the second hand market over here Jap cars are always a good 30% dearer than European cars due to their reputation for reliability.