New member - shopping - looking for info

[brewdad16]

Hi all, I'm strongly considering picking up a 13-16 FRS or BRZ to daily drive and also run in SCCA's new Spec autocross class that is coming out in 2018.

I searched and clicked around and didn't really find what I was looking for.

Does anyone have a scanned copy or links or whatnot to the original sales brochures for each of the twins? Curious to see what sorts of options could be selected as standalone, what comes in each of the various packages, etc.

Also, any common things to look for as potential signs of problems when shopping these cars would be great (buyer's guide type info).

Thanks!
- KB

[Tcoat]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=buyin...k1.sAEcdI4kvqU

[VoltsFRS2013]

From experience, go BRZ if you can. I personally think they are the better car and I currently drive a 13' FRS. If you decide to go the FRS route be sure to shop 14' and up.

[strat61caster]

Pick the one with the interior you want, these cars are super basic and there weren't any meaningful performance options available that are SCCA allowed. The '13 FR-S will be a few lbs lighter due to a lack of leather, HID, touchscreen/navigation, heated seats, climate control, push button start etc. but that may not matter so much to you as the BRZ undoubtedly has the nicer features for very similar money and we're talking like 10-20 lbs. max, it won't be the deciding factor when it comes to autox like some other chassis that can easily gain 50+ lbs with 'factory' options that make a model of a chassis noncompetitive for street+street touring classes.

The only mechanical difference of consequence is spring rates which is irrelevant because you'll be running the spec springs. They are totally mechanically identical aside from the suspension spring rates and manufacturing tolerances.

There is a little wing available on the BRZ higher trim and Scion special models (all labeled 'Release Series' iirc) got "TRD" springs and sway bars which you'll be changing out anyway along with some of the features of the BRZ listed above.

The Scion bodykit (skirts, wings, etc.) was decided to be a dealer installed accessory (with the exception of the 'release series' bodies iirc) and as such won't be SCCA kosher. I'd avoid all body modifications except the OE BRZ spoiler just to not run afoul of the rules.

If you come across one that's questionable post it in one of the autocross threads, no SSC specific thread yet but if you put it in the CS/DS threads someone will likely be able to tell with good confidence if you're playing by the rules or not.

Originally Posted by VoltsFRS2013

From experience, go BRZ if you can. I personally think they are the better car and I currently drive a 13' FRS. If you decide to go the FRS route be sure to shop 14' and up.

Buying a later model applies to both cars. IMHO I'd look for a '13 FR-S built in April 2013 or later because that's the interior I like the best with the revised tune that supposedly fixes direct injector seal failure. But my car put 60k miles on the 'bad' tune without issue so I wouldn't say no to an older one at the right price and mileage.

Edit: If you like the features a BRZ offers it is 100% worth the money as it's chump change vs. upgrading all that stuff on your own. Or griping about not having them.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by VoltsFRS2013

From experience, go BRZ if you can. I personally think they are the better car and I currently drive a 13' FRS. If you decide to go the FRS route be sure to shop 14' and up.

If you go BRZ the same 14 and up applies since they are the same thing.

Gotta ask what makes the BRZ a "better" car?

[Spuds]

Most 13s are likely retuned to something more recent at this point. Scion did the whole 2 years free maintenance thing, so I would guess a reflash would have been done at first opportunity.

[Scuderia86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you go BRZ the same 14 and up applies since they are the same thing.

Gotta ask what makes the BRZ a "better" car?

Two things:
1) Nicer interiors.
2) Slightly different suspension. If I'm not mistaken, the FRS is a bit more tail happy.

That said, I like my '14 FRS just fine. My driving style being what it is, I actually get some understeer on the racetrack.

(Understeer in an FRS... I know, right?)

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Most 13s are likely retuned to something more recent at this point. Scion did the whole 2 years free maintenance thing, so I would guess a reflash would have been done at first opportunity.

No dealer would guarantee that they would flash the updated tune when I called them, I did 59k miles on the original tune before going aftermarket.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by Scuderia86

Two things:
1) Nicer interiors.
2) Slightly different suspension. If I'm not mistaken, the FRS is a bit more tail happy.

That said, I like my '14 FRS just fine. My driving style being what it is, I actually get some understeer on the racetrack.

(Understeer in an FRS... I know, right?)

'13s are really tail happy. The suspensions is so stiff at the rear and the rebound in the shocks are too light which makes the tire bounce on the surface. That's why they are so drifty and a bit harder to control.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

'13s are really tail happy. The suspensions is so stiff at the rear and the rebound in the shocks are too light which makes the tire bounce on the surface. That's why they are so drifty and a bit harder to control.

While I totally disagree, OP will be running the SSC class suspension package which totally negates this difference between models by using Eibach lowering springs and Koni Yellows.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

While I totally disagree, OP will be running the SSC class suspension package which totally negates this difference between models by using Eibach lowering springs and Koni Yellows.

I forgot it depends on your tire set up. lol.
It doesn't take too much effort to kick the tail out still. Tires such as Michelin PSS stick hard. Stock tires along with economy tires want to break traction any time it can.
With hard turns, it's easy to wheel hop.

[VoltsFRS2013]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you go BRZ the same 14 and up applies since they are the same thing.

Gotta ask what makes the BRZ a "better" car?

Interior quality

[HKz]

psh, better interior = more weight, no need....frs all the way

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Scuderia86

Two things:
1) Nicer interiors.
2) Slightly different suspension. If I'm not mistaken, the FRS is a bit more tail happy.

That said, I like my '14 FRS just fine. My driving style being what it is, I actually get some understeer on the racetrack.

(Understeer in an FRS... I know, right?)

Those make it different not necessarily "better".