04-23-2012, 11:18 AM | #141 | |
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Track cars: 2013 Scion FRS, 1998 Acura Integra Type-R, 1993 Honda Civic Hatchback DD: 2005 Acura TSX Tow: 2022 F-450 Toys: 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo, 1994 Toyota MR2 Turbo, 1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Parts: 2015 Subaru BRZ Limited, 2005 Acura TSX Projects: 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited track car build FS: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 LT CCSB 8.1/Allison with 99k miles |
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04-23-2012, 11:24 AM | #142 | |
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And too bad you sold the ITR
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04-23-2012, 11:42 AM | #143 |
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If you're planning on springs and/or coilovers, I'd do those first before deciding on sways. (opposite of what I usually recommend for Subarus.) We've seen in the comparison videos how much springs and dampers chance the behavior of this car. I think doing a RSB first and then springs might be too much. It will depend on how the company that made the springs tuned them.
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04-23-2012, 11:56 AM | #144 | |
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With a CL63 AMG you can do sideways pretty much everywhere with that amount of torque...or you can do THIS: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPh90yNX-mY"]The Mercedes C63 AMG Experiment - Chris Harris ON CARS - YouTube[/ame] Guess you could do the same on the 86! |
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04-23-2012, 02:38 PM | #145 | |
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Also, I do custom rate setups for my cars and have rarely ever done OTS so whatever I do for suspension down the road will be designed for my needs and based on my plans for the car. Which means I'll either change back to the stock sway bar (I never sell stock parts either) and run higher rates in the rear or leave the bigger rsb and run lower rates. I like my RWD cars to dance. My S2000 was setup that way and it was perfect for autocross, although other drivers couldn't match my times in my car since it was setup for my driving style specifically :P I think it's due to my history/experience with setting up fast FWD cars, changed the way I want cars to feel at the limits.
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Track cars: 2013 Scion FRS, 1998 Acura Integra Type-R, 1993 Honda Civic Hatchback DD: 2005 Acura TSX Tow: 2022 F-450 Toys: 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo, 1994 Toyota MR2 Turbo, 1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Parts: 2015 Subaru BRZ Limited, 2005 Acura TSX Projects: 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited track car build FS: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 LT CCSB 8.1/Allison with 99k miles |
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04-23-2012, 02:42 PM | #146 | |
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My cars tend to be set up kind of odd as well. Lift-throttle over with power under is what usually works for me. Seems I might make a good 911 driver if I were to ever drive one. |
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04-23-2012, 02:42 PM | #147 | |
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I do however want to be able to get the car to oversteer when I want it to, but only when I want it to. Balance doesn't mean the extreme
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Track cars: 2013 Scion FRS, 1998 Acura Integra Type-R, 1993 Honda Civic Hatchback DD: 2005 Acura TSX Tow: 2022 F-450 Toys: 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo, 1994 Toyota MR2 Turbo, 1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Parts: 2015 Subaru BRZ Limited, 2005 Acura TSX Projects: 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited track car build FS: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 LT CCSB 8.1/Allison with 99k miles |
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04-23-2012, 03:19 PM | #148 |
First I agree on all the comments about the auto being partially to blame. I don't think the car will be "bad" with an auto, but it's going to take a bit of a hit in the low and mid-range with the change in gearing having a large effect.
For the track test, a manual BRZ with equal tires would have been within reach of the Renault. Probably not ahead, but a lot closer than they made it seem. The Renault is a beast of a car, but....French and we don't get it. I'd love to drive one. The BRZ is a LOT of fun on the street and I think it would still be a lot of fun with the auto. Slower, yes, but still a blast. I don't need to hang the ass end out every corner or reach 10/10ths on the street to have fun. It's still awesome at normal speeds. The steering, brakes, and feedback from the whole chassis just make it a very unique experience compared to other cars out there. Totally stock it's an awesome drive. I think the BRZ would benefit from stickier tires more than the FRS for what it's worth based on the minor suspension differences. Either way...a few suspension upgrades could always help. - Andrew |
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04-23-2012, 03:37 PM | #149 |
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04-23-2012, 04:09 PM | #150 | |
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There are many rather gushingly positive comments in the review; "...steering is beautifully weighted", the "underlying rightness", the "instant and well-judged throttle response", and liken the car more to a Cayman than anything else. More things like "the sense of agility is imprinted on my fingertips" and "The brake feel is truly incredible. Like the steering, the brakes require a firm, positive input but then stream back information." seem to portray an experience that is special. It seems the primary point EVO seems to be harping about is summed up nicely [as always] by Harry Catchpole: "And the chassis...well, it's very special in some respects but getting access to it with so little torque isn't easy." It seems that more than anything, making the car dance isn't easy unless you're at 10/10ths on a racetrack....unless you add power or reduce grip even more.
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04-23-2012, 04:26 PM | #151 |
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The main thing I got from the article was "wah wah this car isn't as powerful as a car with 100 more HP." What was he expecting?
I don't think I've seen any reviews say that the BRZ had more than enough power. I think the general feeling in the auto industry is that it has "enough" power. The fact that he can't keep up with a 370z, well, duh. |
04-23-2012, 04:33 PM | #152 | |
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Now, I'm not saying I agree with them, I'm just pointing out their exact rationale.
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04-23-2012, 04:40 PM | #153 | |
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It's also worth noting the 370Z only gets 18/26 mpg vs. the BRZ 22/30 (both require premium). This probably means nothing to magazine reviewers but to people who drive the car every day it means real savings at the pump, on top of the BRZ being about $5000 cheaper comparing base model to base model. So that extra power comes at a significant cost.
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"And the chassis...well, it's very special in some respects but getting access to it with so little torque isn't easy." "However, they're fleeting moments and the frustration of the lack of torque combined wiht the sheer composure of the thing makes it less accessible than we'd all expected." "...But as the road starts to drop away and retracts into blind hairpins or sequences of tight left-right combinations, the lack of torque once again frustrates and the brilliant composure can feel rather like an uninterested attitude." "I hate to say it but the BRZ feels like it needs more power or a wet surface to fulfil its obvious and tantalising potential." "The tires might be very ordinary and not very wide but they're not much troubled by the piffling torque..." Sounds to me like they thought it could use more torque. Last edited by Spaceywilly; 04-23-2012 at 04:59 PM. |
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04-23-2012, 05:06 PM | #154 | |
I think they overreacted. Many of the quotes you posted point to a 4.5 star car (save the 5 stars for one with 50 more hp) so I'm still scratching my head over why they weren't happy. Maybe 4 stars for the auto version but there should be an asterisk.
The chassis is too good? Too balanced and composed? Brakes and steering are perfect? Yeah that sounds awesome actually. The "underlying rightness" of this car is what has stuck with me and is the reason I haven't stopped thinking about it for a couple months. It's just an amazingly pure driver's car with tons of feedback to tell you what's happening and connect you to the road in the best way. You can push it safely and enjoy doing it. You can just drive it a decent clip and have a blast on normal roads. Going to the store on boring suburban roads is enjoyable. It's firm but not overly harsh...fine for long trips IMO. Absolutely no reason to need to hang the ass out on every corner to have fun. If that's what someone is looking for, a Mustang is a good buy (and honestly a very good car too). Also, tons of grip on average 215 width tires on stock suspension and alignment just makes me so happy. This thing has so much potential and honestly some very minor upgrades will make it an absolute beast....a Renault slaying beast. I can see being disappointed in the automatic transmission (haven't driven that) and having that detract from the overall fun of the car. But not enough to complain like this. And uh, from what I hear...it's not too difficult to kick out the rear in a low speed corner with the manual car. - drew Quote:
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