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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe |
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05-24-2013, 06:25 PM | #29 | |
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Vehicle Stability Basically in the section linked Figure 6.11 illustrates that a car setup for oversteer (like the FRS) will likely be more unstable at high speeds and a vehicle set up for undeersteer is stable at higher speeds. It's why 911's are so successful in racing but have a reputation for being hard to control for everyone else. It also explicitly states in the paragraph below the figure that a car that understeers will understeer MORE at higher speeds when comparing similar steering inputs (the graph shows the understeer line dropping off, representing unresponsiveness). This is simplified and doesn't delve into specifics but I think it shows nicely that depending on the setup, some cars are stable, some aren't, depends on the car. And like you explained, not many people are willing to test this, much less journalists borrowing cars. Don't you just love it when everybody is right? |
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05-24-2013, 06:37 PM | #30 | |
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05-24-2013, 06:38 PM | #31 |
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Interesting thread. Subscribed.
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05-24-2013, 06:39 PM | #32 | |
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05-24-2013, 06:42 PM | #33 | |
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You're the author? |
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05-24-2013, 06:51 PM | #34 | |
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Thank you! Final understeer in high speed bends, a stable and relatively safe status, setup that way by the auto manufacturer for keeping the public safe. Anything less is bordering on insanity for a street car being sold to the general public. This is NOT to say, however, that a determined driver cannot send it off the road tail first with sufficient provocation. I expect the aforementioned Scandinavian Flick should do the trick. (Again, video, please, @autobrz) |
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05-24-2013, 06:59 PM | #35 |
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I wish, he is a cool guy. He taught the class I took.
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05-24-2013, 07:02 PM | #36 |
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05-24-2013, 08:05 PM | #37 |
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My first car was a Mk1 MR2 which I drove almost 30 years ago. I'd say that the BRZ has similar rotation characteristics on turn-in but the biggest difference is of course that the MR2 was quite a handful in an oversteer situation whereas the BRZ is easy to catch (VSC off). On corner exit, the MR2 was more hooked up under acceleration due to the extra weight on the rear.
On a related note, I just replaced the stock tires with Michelin Pilot Super Sports in the stock size. They are pretty close to R compound tires like the Hoosiers and Kumhos I used to autocross on, in terms of grip and steering feel. I am super impressed. FYI, the wear rating is misleading because while the stock tires have a rating of 240, the PSS rating is 300. However, Michelin has a 35,000 mile wear warranty on the stock tires vs. 30,000 for the PSS. Anyway, highly recommend the PSS -- and there is a $70 rebate right now. Last edited by Bravo Romeo Zulu; 05-24-2013 at 08:18 PM. |
05-25-2013, 04:29 AM | #38 | |
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05-25-2013, 08:22 AM | #39 |
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yeah EVERYTHING starts at the road contact patch!
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05-25-2013, 10:30 AM | #40 |
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Most of my experience has been in a autoX. It's been my experience that when I set-up the car to rotate for slower corners, the car suffers looseness in high speed transitions. In order to set-up the car for high-speed transitions, the car will feel tight and want to push in lower speed stuff.
I guess there are two differences in what we're talking about: transitions are not steady state cornering and the high speed I'm used to in autoX is not top speed for the vehicle. Maybe you're completely right most vehicles will have terminal steady state understeer but I argue most vehicles will also become more loose in transitions as speeds increase. I also didn't take into account aerodynamic lift of the front... |
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05-25-2013, 06:32 PM | #41 |
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05-25-2013, 06:40 PM | #42 | |
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So far, I haven't noticed my hood trying to lift up; I'm not keen on carefully scrutinizing my hood, though ... at 100+ mph. I've got my eyes on other things, not least of which is watching out for the stray Enforcer out cruising around the back country roads. |
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