NC MX-5 vs. BRZ

[speargunsandracecars]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

If he said he subjectively thought the Miata was the better driver's car (not sure I agree with this due to the soft suspension tuning on the NC), or had better steering feedback, that'd be one thing. For a subjective statement like that, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But saying the Miata would "stomp" on the Twins on the track struck me as very odd. Especially when it's easily disprovable with facts.

Also not sure I agree with the dollar-for-dollar argument. When I last looked at prices of comparably-equipped Miatas and FR-S's, the Miata was slightly more expensive by a few hundred dollars. I believe it was club-spec Miata vs. base FR-S for the closest comparison.

EDIT:

For the record (and I've probably stated this here or elsewhere), I think both are great cars. I've spent a lot of time driving a good friend's NC Miata and my own FR-S. I even think the Miata is the more fun car on the street due to the top-down factor. I just don't think we need to make up facts for the Miata to defend it.

Not making up facts here. Not every one is a pro driver. And neither am I. But based on my own experience driving my full STR modded NC, and on raw times on autocross and track days, I'm able to put in better times than similarly modded twins. And I'm one of the slower NC drivers. Sure in the hands of a pro, the twins will win. Hands down. I believe I've acknowledged that in my article. But in the hands of an average joe, it's a toss up. Not everyone is a pro driver. I live in the real world. Not the best possible numbers world. You win.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here. I'm a car enthusiast like you guys. But no fanboy. I can see the good and the bad in both cars. Each car has it's own flavor and there are certain things I like and dislike on both cars. But having driven and owned BOTH, I can take my experience with both cars and put it in to an objective article.

I love the NC.
I love the twins.

And for the record, the Mazdaspeed MX5 is considered one of the worst Miatas. Crappy stock tuning, and the heaviest of all soft top Miatas, including the NC.

[glamcem]

as a previous NC3 MX-5 owner I can tell the Miata Club edition with the higher revving engine and revised Bilstein suspension is very close to BRZ, in terms of performance (not from my experience but watch the comparison video below)..numbers are pretty similar..

The difference between the newer Miatas and BRZ is not quantifiable IMO. In the stock form and suspension Miata has a lot more body roll but that it is something a good set of sway bars (Racing Beat sways or similar ) can easily fix ..stock vs stock BRZ will probably is a better performer but with similar mods I think they're pretty even..

it's just fun to drive a roadster in the summer but also BRZ is a lot more practical and technologically advanced..on the other hand the raw feel of the Miata is nice but even I am 6ft tall, I always thought this car might better suit for drivers shorter than 5'7" ..the first thing I did was upgrading the roll bar with a better one since the stock one is a joke for taller drivers..

This is a great comparison (sorry if it's a repost)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDYaSwd4mmk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDYaSwd4mmk[/ame]

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by speargunsandracecars

Not making up facts here. Not every one is a pro driver. And neither am I. But based on my own experience driving my full STR modded NC, and on raw times on autocross and track days, I'm able to put in better times than similarly modded twins. And I'm one of the slower NC drivers. Sure in the hands of a pro, the twins will win. Hands down. I believe I've acknowledged that in my article. But in the hands of an average joe, it's a toss up. Not everyone is a pro driver. I live in the real world. Not the best possible numbers world. You win.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here. I'm a car enthusiast like you guys. But no fanboy. I can see the good and the bad in both cars. Each car has it's own flavor and there are certain things I like and dislike on both cars. But having driven and owned BOTH, I can take my experience with both cars and put it in to an objective article.

I love the NC.
I love the twins.

And for the record, the Mazdaspeed MX5 is considered one of the worst Miatas. Crappy stock tuning, and the heaviest of all soft top Miatas, including the NC.

The details in this post are what I was trying to get at when I first asked why you thought the Miata would stomp on the Twins. I think we agree for the most part, although I would say the Twins are faster at the track (not autox), regardless of pro vs joe. At least that's been my experience as a joe.

[speargunsandracecars]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The details in this post are what I was trying to get at when I first asked why you thought the Miata would stomp on the Twins. I think we agree for the most part, although I would say the Twins are faster at the track (not autox), regardless of pro vs joe. At least that's been my experience as a joe.

Definitely agree with you there. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by speargunsandracecars

Definitely agree with you there. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No worries bud

[Grassroots_BRZ]

great review.

[Cato]

Not sure why the gratuitous swipe at the Mazdaspeed MX-5, but I agree it was not a great autocrosser. What is would do, that no other NB Miata would do, is safely pass another car on a two-lane road. It was also loaded with all the goodies available in 2004-2005 that made driving enjoyable, like the 6-disc CD changer (are you old enough to remember what CDs were?) and cool-looking 17-inch wheels.

If I could have found a Mazdaspeed MX-5 in really good shape, I wouldn't have bought the BRZ.

[CatDaddysBBQ]

If it didn't have to be my only car it'd be a harder choice. As it is, the idea of living with a NC as my only car doesn't seem really feasible. Aside from the lack of cargo, the soft top in Chicago winters, etc - I'm 6'2-3" and couldn't spend too much time in there at once. My choice was easy. Plus, the 86 just looks 10x better too.

But if I was buying a garage car for fun/nice days/weekends? I'd be all about that club sport one they have now over the twins.

[speargunsandracecars]

Originally Posted by Cato

Not sure why the gratuitous swipe at the Mazdaspeed MX-5, but I agree it was not a great autocrosser. What is would do, that no other NB Miata would do, is safely pass another car on a two-lane road. It was also loaded with all the goodies available in 2004-2005 that made driving enjoyable, like the 6-disc CD changer (are you old enough to remember what CDs were?) and cool-looking 17-inch wheels.

If I could have found a Mazdaspeed MX-5 in really good shape, I wouldn't have bought the BRZ.

I had an MSM before my NC. So I have the right to talk bad about that car. Tuning was horrid, the tiny ceramic bearing turbo was laggy, and the redline was lowered by 500rpm. You had to shift to 3rd gear to get to 60 mph. While it had the power, the stock tuning decided how you'll get it. Somedays, you'll get no lag. On others, it'll lag like a single turbo 2JZ. Really depended on how the ECU felt that day. Yes, there are aftermarket fixes for it... But at that point really, you might as well just take a base NB, put in a turbo kit, and do a much better job with tuning than the factory. Handling wise, it's a Miata.

One saving grace of the MSM is the front and rear lip kits specific to them. They looked good.

Slapping a turbo on a car doesn't always make it better. The MSM is one of those cases.

And yes, I know what CDs are.

[Funktional]

Originally Posted by Cato

Not sure why the gratuitous swipe at the Mazdaspeed MX-5, but I agree it was not a great autocrosser. What is would do, that no other NB Miata would do, is safely pass another car on a two-lane road. It was also loaded with all the goodies available in 2004-2005 that made driving enjoyable, like the 6-disc CD changer (are you old enough to remember what CDs were?) and cool-looking 17-inch wheels.

If I could have found a Mazdaspeed MX-5 in really good shape, I wouldn't have bought the BRZ.

I found a mint Mazdaspeed MX-5 with under 25k on the odometer and thought it would be exactly what I was looking for. I left the test drive disappointed. Power delivery was terrible and despite the added power I still thought the FR-S was way more fun to drive, was more comfortable and had better creature comforts. I never liked the NB until the Mazdaspeed came along, I'm thinking a more modern Mazdaspeed variant on the NC platform would have sold me vs the FR-S but who knows since it's speculation.

[Boxer486]

Not sure anyone has posted this, but new Miata chassis. Surprisingly doesn't look too new. Supposedly aiming for 220lbs lighter than current models overall. We've heard that before though.

[val_lixembeau]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Not sure anyone has posted this, but new Miata chassis. Surprisingly doesn't look too new. Supposedly aiming for 220lbs lighter than current models overall. We've heard that before though.

If I am reading the press releases right, the chassis is 220lb lighter. I don't think that's the target for the entire car. Frankly it's pretty impressive to takethatmucwihouoalcar

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by glamcem

as a previous NC3 MX-5 owner I can tell the Miata Club edition with the higher revving engine and revised Bilstein suspension is very close to BRZ, in terms of performance (not from my experience but watch the comparison video below)..numbers are pretty similar..

The difference between the newer Miatas and BRZ is not quantifiable IMO. In the stock form and suspension Miata has a lot more body roll but that it is something a good set of sway bars (Racing Beat sways or similar ) can easily fix ..stock vs stock BRZ will probably is a better performer but with similar mods I think they're pretty even..

it's just fun to drive a roadster in the summer but also BRZ is a lot more practical and technologically advanced..on the other hand the raw feel of the Miata is nice but even I am 6ft tall, I always thought this car might better suit for drivers shorter than 5'7" ..the first thing I did was upgrading the roll bar with a better one since the stock one is a joke for taller drivers..

This is a great comparison (sorry if it's a repost)

Good comparison, but boo for the host's childish (albeit played for laughs) dismissal of quantification and scaling for purposes of more objective assessment (especially given that they were interesting psychophysical metrics rather than they typical road performance ones).

[speargunsandracecars]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Not sure anyone has posted this, but new Miata chassis. Surprisingly doesn't look too new. Supposedly aiming for 220lbs lighter than current models overall. We've heard that before though.

Looks like a more compact NC chassis, which will probably handle amazingly. I am however, a little unhappy about their engine choice.... Skyactiv G 2.0... Long stroke, lower revving, and supposedly lower power. But it is efficient. Honestly though, I prefer the MZR engine to the Skyactivs. I've driven the newer 3s and 6s, and the engine just doesn't have the playful character of the MZR and FA20. But if anything, Mazda might put a unique high flow head or something on the ND. But I don't see the the ND revving past 6800.