Supercharger Comparison: Innovate, Jackson, Kraftwerks, Vortech *Updated March 9 2014

[tendogy]

Originally Posted by wrxgoose

first off, welcome. secondly, damned impressive first post, hopefully you can keep up your head of steam with other posts.

As to the quote, I'll have a non-ic innovate dynojet chart for you this weekend (75mm) that you can use.

Thanks, and can't wait!

Originally Posted by swift996

FYI - There's a forced-induction dyno thread.

Thanks for linking that here, it was what inspired me to find the best data and analyze it. That thread really needs more love.

Originally Posted by Brian@Vortech

But are the pulleys stock size, or had they (or the redline) been changed?

They kits themselves are 100% stock.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by tendogy

I will address specific comments in a moment, but I want to broadly say up front that there is a bizarre lack of available Innovate dynos in this forum.

It is indeed from Innovate, but I'm not convinced it's the canned tune, and that's for two reasons. First, it is a dynojet plot and all of Innovate's other plots have been non-dynojet. Second, I could not find a single intercooled dynojet plot (canned or otherwise) from a customer to use for comparison.

Robftss posted a "canned tune plot" without linking a source. It shows -33 HP peak HP to the one I used. If that's true, then the one I used is definitely not CARB.

It might be the canned tune, it might not, but either way I would be happy to update my graphs and such if someone directed me to a custom-tuned dynojet plot of an intercooled innovate kit on pump gas.

Robftss has posted a "canned tune" dynojet plot (without sourcing), and it shows -33 peak HP to this one.


Take off your foil hat buddy, there's no conspiracy, there's just a lack of Innovate dynos. Robftss posted a "CARB plot" without linking a source (post 60 of this thread). It shows -33 HP peak HP to the one I used. If that's true, then the one I used is definitely not CARB. I slogged through every page of that Innovate owner's thread and found the best one I could. I would be delighted for anyone to provide me with a verified intercooled dynojet plot using a custom tune on pump gas.


Well that's just not true. The Innovate CARB tune posted by Robftss makes 211 RWHP peak and the Jackson makes 243 RWHP. Even if you factor in the 7HP difference in the stock plots they show, that's still a 25HP difference.

First off, thanks for taking the time to do all this analysis!

Re. Innovate dynos, here's one on a dynojet (they describe it as
Standard 75mm pulley, stock exhaust system, intercooler, CARB approved tune, and 91 octane fuel.)




From this thread:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53814

[tendogy]

Originally Posted by swift996

Perhaps you can use software like this:
http://www.datazap.me/u/swift996/test-log?log=0&data=6

Maybe? I think I'm going to hang up my analysis hat for a while though.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

First off, thanks for taking the time to do all this analysis!

Re. Innovate dynos, here's one on a dynojet

You're welcome! And thanks for linking that, it's actually the exact one I used! It's weird that they describe it as CARB because the other Innovate Intercooled CARB plot posted in this thread showed 30hp less than this one.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by tendogy

You're welcome! And thanks for linking that, it's actually the exact one I used! It's weird that they describe it as CARB because the other Innovate Intercooled CARB plot posted in this thread showed 30hp less than this one.

Cheers for the wealth of info so far.

Are you able to do the area under the curve comparison using this dyno numbers compared to the other chargers?

EDIT: i.e. Redo post 103 based off this dyno.

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by shaunsweeney

The innovate with a smaller pulley and intercooler is exactly what I'm looking for power wise. I HATE peaky powerbands. That absolutely sucks in DD cars. The only time narrow power windows work is a known track environment and even then I'm not a fan.

The reason I never went big turbo on my SRT4 are the same as noted above. That car was way more fun with a maxed out stock turbo IMHO. Different strokes though.

What do you mean by peaky?

[tendogy]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Are you able to do the area under the curve comparison using this dyno numbers compared to the other chargers?

The stock dyno in the other plot is very close to what I used in the original analysis, so you could plug in the numbers for the Innovate IC from post #1 and compare them to the Jackson CARB area numbers from #103 to make that comparison.

I'm pretty burnt out on it myself at the moment though

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by tendogy

I will address specific comments in a moment, but I want to broadly say up front that there is a bizarre lack of available Innovate dynos in this forum.

...
It is indeed from Innovate, but I'm not convinced it's the canned tune, and that's for two reasons. First, it is a dynojet plot and all of Innovate's other plots have been non-dynojet. Second, I could not find a single intercooled dynojet plot (canned or otherwise) from a customer to use for comparison.

I'll be installing my Innovate intercooler this weekend and should be able to get a dyno (on a dynojet) for you within a week or so.

[xxscaxx]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

I'll be installing my Innovate intercooler this weekend and should be able to get a dyno (on a dynojet) for you within a week or so.

As will I. But for me will be early february.

And will be flex fuel so yours will be better for comparison sake.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by tendogy

The stock dyno in the other plot is very close to what I used in the original analysis, so you could plug in the numbers for the Innovate IC from post #1 and compare them to the Jackson CARB area numbers from #103 to make that comparison.

I'm pretty burnt out on it myself at the moment though

Fair enough, when you have a chance please.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by xxscaxx

As will I. But for me will be early february.

And will be flex fuel so yours will be better for comparison sake.

I run both 93 and E85, but no flexfuel here (yet?)

We'll see which fuel I'm running when I get to the dyno, I haven't decided yet. The dyno is close enough though that I can always swing by to dyno the other fuel at a later date without issue.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

I run both 93 and E85, but no flexfuel here (yet?)

We'll see which fuel I'm running when I get to the dyno, I haven't decided yet. The dyno is close enough though that I can always swing by to dyno the other fuel at a later date without issue.

Are you sure your figures could be used?
Thought it was carb vs carb?

[akuhei]

Originally Posted by tendogy

Hello all. I made these charts and have been waiting for my account to activate so I could pop in and say hello.

I just wanted to take a moment and honestly say thank you for putting this together. Hopefully, the comparison will continue to evolve as we find dyno's that better match each other (for apples to apples comparison), but what is available right now is still great to see side by side. So once more, thank you.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Are you sure your figures could be used?
Thought it was carb vs carb?

Carb vs carb? I'm pretty sure the original post said they were all running custom tunes.

I'm sure I could get them to send me the carb tune for testing if needed, though.

[tendogy]

The original intent is indeed custom tunes on dynojets using octane 91/92/93 with any exhaust setup and no artificial cooling (meth etc), and I am very glad that you fine folks will have some of those available soon!