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View Poll Results: What name should Toyota use for the production Toyota FT-1?
Supra gets my vote! 367 74.59%
I don't know, but its time for a new name. 125 25.41%
Voters: 492. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-30-2018, 10:46 PM   #3361
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Dude. Stop reading that crap. That is an article from one rag using material from another. None of it is even remotely confirmed.

Hell, even they were not convinced with what they were writing.

"Before we get too upset, Tada was seemingly careful with his wording, and didn’t completely rule out a manual"
Dude, nothing is confirmed until the car is actually introduced..... All information at this juncture are from "rags". But everything we've seen thus far says there won't be a manual in the Supra. Tada has said elsewhere that he didn't think the manual would be put into production. How much of a hint do you need?

If I had to make the corporate decision, I'd only put a DCT auto option in the 6 cyl without a manual as the price will be higher and the purchaser wouldn't want a stripped down street car. The 4 cyl is a different animal. If the price difference is there, I'd put a MT in the base model with an auto upgrade of the Z4. I still think the Supra chassis will be the basis for the next FT86 which will be a turbo 4. That will also have an auto option. That checks all of the boxes and makes the production efficient and profitable. That's how I read what's found in the sum total of the "rags". And yes, it is pure, unadulterated, supposition. It will be fun to see how close I get at the beginning of next year when we get the actual information.

And I'm sure you're very glad I'm not making the corporate decision....
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:26 PM   #3362
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Like it has been said, autos use to be more expensive, so they were an extra add on cost. I’m fine paying extra for a manual if the tables were turned.
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:52 AM   #3363
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Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Lol. No they're not. That's how quick the ZF boxes shift. BMW has totally abandoned the dual clutch going forward, now that the autos are just as fast, and they hold way more torque.
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Originally Posted by stevesnj View Post
Those gearshifts are from a Dual Clutch also he had to sep on the brake before starting the car.
Yoshoobaroo is right, also holding the brake before starting the car is also normal for almost all modern autos especially with push to start buttons.


As for the statement they're just as fast that's not entirely true, the ZF 8HP that's present in the new supra is about as fast as the old M3 SMG box, vanquish, ferrari and the like at 200-250ms. the current gen dual clutches are way faster, not that we'd notice that
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:01 AM   #3364
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Sort of odd that Tada-san has somewhat contradicted himself when originally he used to talk about how vital MTs were during the 86 project while he seems a bit perplexed every time he gets questioned about its importance in the Supra.
They can spin it however they want with the times. Look what happened to Honda.

The facelift 86/BRZ already contradicted a lot of the initial design points of the first car from just sitting inside the cockpit.

Also if you look at the LFA design video on YouTube, the aluminum frame prototype was a stick shift before they switched to CFRP and subsequently the single clutch automatic.

This time around it's built by BMW passion, but with Toyota committee.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:54 AM   #3365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
As strange of an engineering ideology as it may be, Tada-San specifically has "Aftermarket Tuning Capable" as one of his main design goals and that is specifically in regards to the legacy of the JZ.

Now, I def agree that the B58 seemed like a good platform to do that with (it was a clean sheet design over the older n54/n55 motors), but apparently Tada-San and the team at Toyota had a number of grievances with the B58 design that they wanted to address. Hence, the larger scale redesign of the motor.

The other caveat is that there is still the possibility that the CGI version of the motor might not be available with the car at launch, but rather will be on the GRMN top-spec model, which may be fairly powerful (450hp+), and would benefit from the added strength. However, I have it on good authority that some of the mules running around as early as 2 years ago had the new "iron" motor in it and also weighed in at roughly 1380kg.

I'm digging every day for more info as to what we're getting in the production-spec cars, but Toyota has been locking down more and more of our sources as launch nears. My main takeaway is that Toyota has had far more of an aggressive role in shaping this car than the press lets off. There has been a significant Toyota engineering presence dedicated to this project and everything from the chassis, suspension, drivetrain, etc has been meticulously curated and modified to keep the car very Toyota in ideology.

this is so reassuring to hear.

Last edited by SuperDave; 07-31-2018 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:18 AM   #3366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Like it has been said, autos use to be more expensive, so they were an extra add on cost. I’m fine paying extra for a manual if the tables were turned.
If you break it down to the R&D, materials, and assembly cost automatics are still more expensive. Manuals are simpler. You can't overcome that. Only when you factor economies of scale and which transmission the car is built around do manuals lose the advantage.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:32 AM   #3367
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If you break it down to the R&D, materials, and assembly cost automatics are still more expensive. Manuals are simpler. You can't overcome that. Only when you factor economies of scale and which transmission the car is built around do manuals lose the advantage.
I like to refer people to the MT section of a service manual Vs the AT section of a service manual. Hahaha. The AT section will be 10 times as thick. Although I suspect a dual clutch box is more simplistic. I think I will dig one up out of curiosity.
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Old 07-31-2018, 12:05 PM   #3368
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If you break it down to the R&D, materials, and assembly cost automatics are still more expensive. Manuals are simpler. You can't overcome that. Only when you factor economies of scale and which transmission the car is built around do manuals lose the advantage.
Exactly. R&D costs are usually minimal because often a manual transmission is offered somewhere in the world. Maybe they need to do a right to left hand drive conversion or something. Probably the expense happens trying to put the car through crash tests to make sure it is compliant.

And then there is trying to predict sales. Manuals on crossovers are almost non-existant now, but were only on base models for a long time or still are, suggesting they assumed it was the frugale shopper who wanted a manual. If demand is low then which cars to build as manuals? Only black and white cars because those sell the most? Only in lower trims because those sell the most? It becomes a cycle of self defeating behavior, where the lack of options further drives down demand. Hence the need for a premium cost for a manual or a built from factory option.
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Old 07-31-2018, 12:23 PM   #3369
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So people here are saying its incorrect information being published that the 2019 Toyota Supra will use the B58B30 engine from BMW?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-what-we-know/
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Old 07-31-2018, 12:30 PM   #3370
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So people here are saying its incorrect information being published that the 2019 Toyota Supra will use the B58B30 engine from BMW?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-what-we-know/
That’s what Moto and a few others have said. personally I would rather believe sources close to Tada San than click bait media.
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Old 07-31-2018, 12:36 PM   #3371
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So people here are saying its incorrect information being published that the 2019 Toyota Supra will use the B58B30 engine from BMW?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-what-we-know/
Yes.
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Old 07-31-2018, 12:49 PM   #3372
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New Supra 4 cyl to replace the 86?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN View Post
As for the statement they're just as fast that's not entirely true, the ZF 8HP that's present in the new supra is about as fast as the old M3 SMG box, vanquish, ferrari and the like at 200-250ms. the current gen dual clutches are way faster, not that we'd notice that


That's partly because most OEMs use a conservative tune in the automatics for comfort's sake. The ZF 6HP in my E90 335i has an aggressive tune on it, and it shifts in 140ms according to testing done by the tuner, which is extremely close to BMW's DCT box in the E90 M3 (130ms IIRC). Curious to see how far BMW/Toyota are willing to dial it up.
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:46 PM   #3373
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They can spin it however they want with the times. Look what happened to Honda.

The facelift 86/BRZ already contradicted a lot of the initial design points of the first car from just sitting inside the cockpit.

Also if you look at the LFA design video on YouTube, the aluminum frame prototype was a stick shift before they switched to CFRP and subsequently the single clutch automatic.

This time around it's built by BMW passion, but with Toyota committee.
what do you mean what happened to Honda? They are one of the few manufacturers still very committed to MTs but admittedly in some ways they are just as obnoxious by not offering AT variants..

sure the twins have changed a little bit but the overall theme is the same...a few steering wheel buttons & little LCD helper screen is nothing and probably helped Toyota snag a few extra 86 fans since for every person who dislikes steering wheel buttons there's always one that wants them...and remember, they decided to pour more money only for the MT twins when that probably was quite unnecessary.

As far as the LFA, 6 figure cars should never be compared to cars for mere mortals ^^
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:59 PM   #3374
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OK let's just put this out there.
Same event.
Same topic.
One author is a reliable, known associate of Tada who makes his living building cars and writes more as a hobby.
One author is an editor for an internet rag that makes their money based on clicks.
Which do people want to believe?


Moto quotes Tada - "We may also offer inline 4 variant for select markets where costs of a larger engine can be prohibitive in ownership or registration costs. That has yet to be determined, but we left some room for tuners and aftermarket on these engines, and it should be an interesting engine in that respect too."


Road and Track wrote - Road & Track web editor Chris Perkins had the chance to speak with Supra chief engineer Testsuya Tada at the Goodwood Festival of Speed a few days ago, and the Toyota employee confirmed that there will indeed be a four-cylinder Supra. Tada also remarked that, for the Supra owners who plan to swap in a 2JZ engine, "please buy the four-cylinder. It will be cheaper."
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