Functional Aero Parts and their effects ?

[kavanagh]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

What about instead of a plain half circle rounded leading edge, you had an airfoil-shaped leading edge? Just with the more curved side on the bottom. Like a slight teardrop shape under the first few inches of the leading edge. That would (possibly) create faster airflow and a low pressure zone under the nose, generating an almost suction effect.



Like so:





That would probably be easier to do in CF than it would be in plastic sheet, which would greatly increase the time and cost. It's a novel idea though.



I wish I had access to the tools you guys have. I have a ton of probably useless ideas backed by absolutely no formal education or testing that I want to play around with.

You're onto the right idea with the airfoil thing but your scale is off. The point at which the area under the car should be increased by curving the foil up closer to the underbody is near the front axle, or the line drawn between the contact patches. This allows time and space for the air to accelerate before expanding to create the decreased pressure zone. I'll find my link somewhere that illustrates this but I'm on my phone right now.


Sent from a secret volcano base using trained sharks

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

You're onto the right idea with the airfoil thing but your scale is off. The point at which the area under the car should be increased by curving the foil up closer to the underbody is near the front axle, or the line drawn between the contact patches. This allows time and space for the air to accelerate before expanding to create the decreased pressure zone. I'll find my link somewhere that illustrates this but I'm on my phone right now.

I wasn't looking for the whole car, because you would have to overcome the entirety of the car's body in order to generate negative lift. I was just looking at the initial part of the splitter, where it sticks out forward of the car about three inches. Basically, just enough to kick things off and speed up the airflow for the ventral vanes already planned for the race version.

[kavanagh]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I wasn't looking for the whole car, because you would have to overcome the entirety of the car's body in order to generate negative lift. I was just looking at the initial part of the splitter, where it sticks out forward of the car about three inches. Basically, just enough to kick things off and speed up the airflow for the ventral vanes already planned for the race version.

Aha. That does make sense then. Or maybe some small, inverted vortex generators?

Then we could paint them white and they'd look like teeth. LoL


Sent from a secret volcano base using trained sharks

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

Aha. That does make sense then. Or maybe some small, inverted vortex generators?

Then we could paint them white and they'd look like teeth. LoL

Sent from a secret volcano base using trained sharks

I think the vanes on the bottom are acting as vortex generators. My question is: if air is moving faster before it hits a vortex generator, does that make the vortex tighter or looser? And what effect does that have on the car?

[kavanagh]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I think the vanes on the bottom are acting as vortex generators. My question is: if air is moving faster before it hits a vortex generator, does that make the vortex tighter or looser? And what effect does that have on the car?

My assumption is that faster air hitting a VG would cause the boundary layer to be tighter, but now I'm just armchair quarterbacking... Someone with actual knowledge would need to verify that - my engineering classes were too long ago and I work in a different field now.

by the way, is Gramicci a last name, or are you a fan of the climbing clothes? I own some of their stuff. www.gramicci.com

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

by the way, is Gramicci a last name, or are you a fan of the climbing clothes? I own some of their stuff. www.gramicci.com

In 15 years of having my user name, you are the 2nd person to make that connection. You deserve some sort of award for that.

I used to climb a lot and work in a climbing gym before I joined the military; gramicci pants were pretty much all I wore.

[kavanagh]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

In 15 years of having my user name, you are the 2nd person to make that connection. You deserve some sort of award for that.

I used to climb a lot and work in a climbing gym before I joined the military; gramicci pants were pretty much all I wore.

woohooo! I'll treat myself to a pat on the back if I can do it without breaking my arm. LoL

[bimmer635csi]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

What about instead of a plain half circle rounded leading edge, you had an airfoil-shaped leading edge? Just with the more curved side on the bottom. Like a slight teardrop shape under the first few inches of the leading edge. That would (possibly) create faster airflow and a low pressure zone under the nose, generating an almost suction effect.

Like so:


That would probably be easier to do in CF than it would be in plastic sheet, which would greatly increase the time and cost. It's a novel idea though.

I wish I had access to the tools you guys have. I have a ton of probably useless ideas backed by absolutely no formal education or testing that I want to play around with.

One issue with this design is customer based. Many people running splitters participate in SCCA autocross and club racing. Many of the classes in these events that allow splitters mandate that it must be planar. Having the fancy aero shape would disqualify that splitter.

[civicdrivr]

Originally Posted by glamcem

as I said earlier it's not the best solution but it's still better than nothing right?

Not according to Eric:

Originally Posted by eric6

If you add a splitter tie to anywhere that isn't metal (APR's goes to the plastic bumper in all the photos I have looked at), the splitter tie is in no way holding much load, if any.

I'd be more than happy to take this conversation to PM. I don't want to cloud up this thread further.

[eric6]

Before my words get twisted too much, I can't believe we are arguing about this. It is his car, he knows my thoughts on them (and likely agrees), and I am sure he can make his own decision of whether or not it was/is beneficial to him and his car.

I was simply pointing out that in my opinion, APR's splitter does not produce much downforce. Carbon fiber or not, if it is attached *solely* to the bumper which is very flexible. If a splitter produces anything more than 25 pounds of downforce (FT86SpeedFactory's street front splitter produces 50lbs at 100mph), tie rods are necessary to keep the splitter parallel with the ground and need to attach directly to a metal support structure.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by eric6

Before my words get twisted too much, I can't believe we are arguing about this. It is his car, he knows my thoughts on them (and likely agrees), and I am sure he can make his own decision of whether or not it was/is beneficial to him and his car.

I was simply pointing out that in my opinion, APR's splitter does not produce much downforce. Carbon fiber or not, if it is attached *solely* to the bumper which is very flexible. If a splitter produces anything more than 25 pounds of downforce (FT86SpeedFactory's street front splitter produces 50lbs at 100mph), tie rods are necessary to keep the splitter parallel with the ground and need to attach directly to a metal support structure.

ok I am a bit confused now, are you suggesting that adding tie rods that attached to the bumper can be harmful and using the splitter without any support rods is safer? because being less effective and harmful are two different things?

this is what you said in the other thread :

Glamcem, I hope that the splitter tie is attached to metal. Otherwise, those ties aren't doing much since the bumper is just plastic. Our kit, which will add support directly to the crash beam, will be out in approximately a month. If you decide to add supports yourself, you need to attach it to metal on the car to make it be of much benefit.

and I said I will get the upgrade kit for added safety when it's released and I am ok with my solution until you release yours..I know it is not "doing much" but when you say that it can be interpreted as "it does something but not so much" , I don't see the part it says "it's better to use without any support until we release the one that connects to the metal"


here is another excerpt from your earlier posts

I have had it into the triple digits multiple times, the splitter is held in very firmly. If it's coming off, your bumper is coming off. It has been curbed, bumped, stood on, and driven at high rates of speed. Here is a video of the splitter in action at 100 MPH.

and the video you posted that shows the splitter at 100 mph,
description of the video :

FT86 splitter designed specifically for street and light duty racing.

[ame="http://youtu.be/kLwSrouI71U"]http://youtu.be/kLwSrouI71U[/ame]


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=38

as you can guess I was under the impression that the splitter should be fine since I am not even racing and I should be OK by adding my rods until I receive the upgrade kit..if you feel that the splitter is not OK to use without any support (that connects to the metal) Can I ask you why it was released without them?

Thanks in advance

[eric6]

Now I am completely lost buddy. No, the ties you added are not harmful in anyway.

I do not see where I said it is better to use without any support, nor do I remember stating that. If your car is used on the highway and light duty racing, splitter ties are not necessary. You can add whatever you want to your splitter.

The necessity for splitter ties comes with high rates of speed (above 80mph).

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by eric6

Now I am completely lost buddy. No, the ties you added are not harmful in anyway.

I do not see where I said it is better to use without any support, nor do I remember stating that. If your car is used on the highway and light duty racing, splitter ties are not necessary. You can add whatever you want to your splitter.

The necessity for splitter ties comes with high rates of speed (above 80mph).

no you never said that it wouldn't make any sense at all..
and I completely agree with you on adding a tie rod that I can attach to the metal is the best method obviously so we tried that..my friend (who works in a body shop) simply couldn't attach to the bumper beam because of the angle of the rods so we figured we can attach to the bumper until you release yours, I will simply add the new rods when they're avaliable..

I think it all started when @civicdrivr said

"Not according to Eric"
after quoting my sentence

Originally Posted by glamcem View Post
as I said earlier it's not the best solution but it's still better than nothing right?

Thanks for clarifying that

[Boxer486]

He said some support rod installations might be as good as having nothing which is neither better than nothing nor necessarily harmful. That's how I read the conversation.