Subaru Toyota Collab on Next Gen 86 Stopped

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by HachiRokuX

Just a couple questions..

Isn’t it likely that a more powerful engine w/ more displacement and smaller changes like sound deadening, maybe a premium interior option would add weight to the current car?

Can’t current owners essentially get 230 peak hp with header/exhaust/tune? All while removing weight from the car? I’d be happy with 230 myself but I think a lot of current owners might keep their cars, depending on what else a second gen could bring to the table.


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The 2.4 wouldn’t be heavier, you’re increasing the displacement not the actual engine size. It’s still an FA20. It would make 230 without being as high strung and would make more torque across the board.

Some things might affect weight, but I remember Tada-San mentioning they could pull 100kg out of the chassis to make it lighter.

We won’t know until it happens, but my bet is on an FA24 on the same (but updated) platform.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I remember when people used to say that about Japanese cars......

But those remarks back then had no foundation. I remember the Hyundai Pony.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by HachiRokuX

Just a couple questions..

Isn’t it likely that a more powerful engine w/ more displacement and smaller changes like sound deadening, maybe a premium interior option would add weight to the current car?

Can’t current owners essentially get 230 peak hp with header/exhaust/tune? All while removing weight from the car? I’d be happy with 230 myself but I think a lot of current owners might keep their cars, depending on what else a second gen could bring to the table.


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I'd get the new one if it was basically the same car with a 2.4L making 230+/190+

[evoto86]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

I got a 2019 Kia Forte sedan as a rental car the other day. They have come a long way. Other than the FWD it was a pretty solid car. Lots of options too (cruise control, lane departure warning, dual climate control, HID, backup cam with a BIG screen, etc...). I wasn't embarrassed to drive it around unlike some of the older models.

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I drove the Kia stinger GT the other day and it blew me away, very quick and Inside feels premium feels like a 50k sports sedan.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by evoto86

I drove the Kia stinger GT the other day and it blew me away, very quick and Inside feels premium feels like a 50k sports sedan.

I never get that as a rental car

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[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by evoto86

I drove the Kia stinger GT the other day and it blew me away, very quick and Inside feels premium feels like a 50k sports sedan.

That’s cause it is

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Sounds unlikely, they don’t have a RWD platform anywhere near this light.



I really hope not. I have an N55 powered 3 series, and while it makes tons of power and torque, it’s not an exciting motor to rev out. All BMWs turbo motors have been like that. They don’t race to redline like the BRZ does, they don’t beg you to thrash the everloving crap out of them like the FA20 does. They’re powerful, but that’s really it. Also BMWs shifters and clutch pedals suck compared to what we have in the twins. No feedback, rubbery, and inconsistent.


A high compression high redline FA24 on a carryover chassis from the current platform sounds perfect to me. Get it to 230hp and keep it under 2800lbs. No need to reinvent the wheel after 1 gen. Most cars evolve incrementally across generations, they’re not completely redesigned over 2 generations. At most we’re getting a new platform (not likely IMO) or a new engine, not both.

I don't know, Subaru built a RWD sports car, Toyota made a Supra out of parts from thr BMW parts bin.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I don't know, Subaru built a RWD sports car, Toyota made a Supra out of parts from thr BMW parts bin.

Subaru made a WRX RWD.
BMW put a roof on the Z4.
Toyota put their badge on both after tuning the suspension.

(Yes I know Toyota helped a lot more on the 86 than on the Supra but then my post wouldn’t be funny)

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Subaru made a WRX RWD.

If only, I always thought they should have done a STI version with the FA20T, still RWD and manual though, just the FA20T and a gearbox that can handle some abuse.

And of course the 32 STI decals.

I always thought they were taking the piss with the Ts and STI badges on the BRZ, a few suspension tweeks and a lip kit does not make a STI.

I would have paid another $5-8 for the privilege.

Ack on the high reving NA though.

Maybe it will be that Lexus hybrid, maybe they will dump the thing completely and have another go at a celica.

GT4 remake...that would keep Subaru and their AWD global platform mantra happy.

I love speculation, LOL.

[chipmunk]

I'm still intrigued by the idea of getting a low-mileage used Lotus Elise/Exige for around the same price as a brand new BRZ..... maybe a little more.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

The 2.4 wouldn’t be heavier, you’re increasing the displacement not the actual engine size. It’s still an FA20. It would make 230 without being as high strung and would make more torque across the board.

Haven't the crate stroker builders been filling in and bracing the empty spaces in the 2.0L block to make it strong enough to handle the extra displacement of their builds without cracking or overheating? As hollow as this block is between cylinders, I would expect a 2.4 to need more steel in it to support the extra displacement.

Not that it would add enough weight to be an issue, and I admit I don't have enough engine building experience to speak confidently on it. But it seems like it would need to be beefed up a little to meet OEM durability requirements.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

I'm still intrigued by the idea of getting a low-mileage used Lotus Elise/Exige for around the same price as a brand new BRZ..... maybe a little more.

Or, alternately, I'm still intrigued by the idea of getting a brand new BRZ that handles like a go kart but still has enough trunk space for luggage for around the same price as a used Lotus.

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Or, alternately, I'm still intrigued by the idea of getting a brand new BRZ that handles like a go kart but still has enough trunk space for luggage for around the same price as a used Lotus.

.... And what's the point of this post, besides the obvious trunk space that everyone already knows about?

[OwlDance]

The thing that concerns me is if we've reached a current (realistically approachable) maximum for power to displacement to efficiency ratio with the FA engine for NA applications. The car as is has a really solid blend of fuel efficiency, practicality, size, weight...everything but the power, which is a little lackluster.

I can't see getting much more out of this car's all purpose practicality without slashing its weight further (seems hard to do without using more expensive materials or significant design changes, this car is plenty big yet light for its size) or going FI, which is a whole other rabbit hole of design compromises and money.

I know it's silly for most people to consider MPG and efficiency on a sports car but I don't think anyone would turn their nose from using less gasoline, not to mention the ever more stringent emissions regulations with each passing year.

A lot of this car is of a one off design, so to speak. The manual transmission was designed strictly for this car and power, the engine itself was a joint venture between Subaru and Toyota as a one off (which did lead to DIT and the FA24), there's a lot of RnD they'd have to do to make sure the car can still be called by the same name, without just making an entirely new car to begin with.

Now this is hearsay and I have no idea how true it is but the ft86 itself only sold enough to be considered barely a success despite the costs being shared in the joint project. That doesn't bode well for seeing significant RnD IMHO. Everyone loves to talk more power, but I'm not sure there's a terribly huge amount more that can be accomplished with the current platform while keeping costs the same.

But I'm not an engineer, so this is just me throwing my speculations/concerns into the wind.