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View Poll Results: What name should Toyota use for the production Toyota FT-1?
Supra gets my vote! 367 74.59%
I don't know, but its time for a new name. 125 25.41%
Voters: 492. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-22-2017, 07:35 PM   #1611
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Dave From Toyota - What We Learned In Breck About The 200...

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I wanted to get this thread up before I forget a lot of what the Toyota rep, Dave, told us last night at dinner.

First, I'll do my best to recap his credibility. This guy was involved with product development of the 200 Series Land Cruiser about 10 years ago. He worked with the Toyota engineers in Japan and in many other countries on various continents, testing every aspect of the 200.

Interestingly, he also is involved with product development for just about every other North American market Toyota as well, so he had some interesting insight into Toyota product planning, development, and execution.

This guy was great - the real deal - and he patiently answered a LOT of our questions. Here's some of the info we gathered from him:

Skipped a bunch of blah blah blah...

- Any info on the upcoming Toyota Supra?
-- Release date early 2019; should have north of 400hp, expect a manual option. Dave would not comment on powertrain other than to indicate it was a joint build with BMW and it will NOT be using BMW's ubiquitous 3.0 twin turbo inline 6. He said it may have a 3.5 v6 turbo and there may be a hybrid variant.


That's most of what I recall from the conversation. An important, if not somewhat disturbing takeway, was that Toyota doesn't really build vehicles FOR the off-road enthusiast. Certainly not to the degree many of the LCDC members use their trucks. I took from Dave's conversation with us that Toyota wants their vehicles to be tough and last forever, but that actual capability is lower on the list for them. The main reason is liability (from what I gathered) - the more capable you build and market the vehicle, the more likely you are to get sued when people flip it, roll it or otherwise make poor decisions.

Dave specifically said that when they were developing the 200, they wanted to make sure the vehicle had a "normal service life" - but that it could and would have that normal service life in the harshest of environments; even environments that don't even have roads.

I hope that helps - please chime in if you were there and I missed some things!
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/dav...e-200.1003052/[/QUOTE]
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:29 PM   #1612
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2018 Toyota Supra Going Full Throttle!!!



http://www.supramkv.com/threads/2018...-throttle.647/

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Old 08-22-2017, 09:58 PM   #1613
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Sounds like a Bimmer turbo lawn mower.
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:56 PM   #1614
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:20 AM   #1615
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Originally Posted by gymratter View Post
[/QUOTE]

Ehhh. So BMW is providing what? A hybrid power train? Yea because Toyota doesn't have any experience with hybrids. Maybe the turbo v6 engine? Nope, BMW doesn't have any of those. I'm sure the hybrid idea will make for a light weight car, since that has been the talk. The NSX is 3800lbs and that is with some pretty expensive light weight tech, not to mention a big price tag.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:09 AM   #1616
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Ehhh. So BMW is providing what? A hybrid power train? Yea because Toyota doesn't have any experience with hybrids. Maybe the turbo v6 engine? Nope, BMW doesn't have any of those. I'm sure the hybrid idea will make for a light weight car, since that has been the talk. The NSX is 3800lbs and that is with some pretty expensive light weight tech, not to mention a big price tag.
My guess is the Euro market will get the I4 Turbo/hybrid and the bigger I6 Turbo but no V6 due to the higher power and probably higher gas mileage. It will probably compete directly to the Mustang over there as many would go I6 turbo Supra vs a I4 Turbo Mustang.

For the States they will ditch the I6 option and do a V6 twin turbo from Lexus but keep the I4 Turbo hybrid? I guess this follows the LC500 power and hybrid options philosophy they have going on. This is assuming what Dave is saying is 100% true.

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Old 08-24-2017, 02:13 AM   #1617
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It's going to be a liftback!

http://www.supramkv.com/threads/its-...-liftback.648/

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Old 08-28-2017, 12:29 PM   #1618
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From Far away it looks likes a camo up Alfa 4c lol
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Old 08-28-2017, 01:31 PM   #1619
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
That made me laugh, but in all seriousness, the NSX is not the best example of your typical GT car, right? A mid engine exotic, not a front engine, rwd, comfortable and somewhat luxurious touring vehicle.

Just taking the old Supra at 3500lbs then add increased safety standard equipment and chassis rigidity to it, increased electronics and systems for stability controls, increased emission control systems, increased electronics for cameras, monitors and navigation, and increased components if it requires more cooling because of higher power outputs or anything else, I can't imagine it weighing the same.

I haven't driven the M6 or the GTR, but if the m3 then vs the m3 now is several hundred pounds heavier and larger in dimensions then I can only imagine the new Supra would be bigger too than the mkiv. They could downgrade the Supra's attributes from the mkiv like how they did with the 350z from the 300zx, or they could switch the focus from a track enabled grand touring car to a more nimble, lightweight GT car.

I'm not really advocating anything except that I thought it would be odd for the Z4 to look like the M6 convertible and be bloated to the size of the 3 series convertible; that seems odd for a roadster to be so big, and if it is still small then it would be odd for the Supra to be so small.

Just another tid bit. Weight isn't necessarily a bad thing for handling. The GTR does well enough, right? The Camaro ZL1 LTE was faster than the Corvette Z06, right? And it weighs, what, like 400-500lbs more, right?
The BRZ is basically a modern S13. Same size, same weight, 35% more power. All thanks to modern technology. So I'm curious to know why you think that the more expensive Supra Mk5 couldn't adhere pretty close to the same design targets.

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Edit: Just a point on weight, Friction=coefficient of friction tim+es the normal force where the normal force is the weight or mass times the acceleration due to gravity. Maybe more weight means more friction. We all know how a light car can struggle to get traction. Maybe there is something to be said about having weight when aero downforce isn't available.
And no, just NO. More weight is always bad. Maybe more weight, distributed considerably better, than a slightly lighter car is better, but overall more weight is never a desired trait for a sports car. It is the enemy of everything related to stopping, turning and accelerating.
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Old 08-28-2017, 02:09 PM   #1620
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Man, I really wish the 86 was a liftback. I know it would have weighed more, but an optional hatch would be awesome.

I still have high hopes for the Supra, even though it will be years until I can afford one.
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:20 AM   #1621
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The BRZ is basically a modern S13. Same size, same weight, 35% more power. All thanks to modern technology. So I'm curious to know why you think that the more expensive Supra Mk5 couldn't adhere pretty close to the same design targets.

And no, just NO. More weight is always bad. Maybe more weight, distributed considerably better, than a slightly lighter car is better, but overall more weight is never a desired trait for a sports car. It is the enemy of everything related to stopping, turning and accelerating.
Im not really familiar with the s13. I don't know how it compares to the 86. Was its iron block much heavier? Is the hood aluminum like the 86? Was there little sound deadening material like the 86? How would the quality of the components compare? Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

I think they could use an aluminum block over iron like that of 2jz block. They could use thinner metal on the body panels. They could use aluminum on some body panels and other components, yet the MKIV had a lot of light weight components already like an aluminum hood n magnesium steering wheel to name a few. They could NOT overbuild the car like the previous Supra. Of course they can find ways to cut corners over its predecessor to make it as light as possible. Or they could make it as small as the 86 or z4 roadster to try to reduce weight gains.

Like i said, compare the 95' M3 to the 15' M3 and there is a 300lb difference. Why? Even with aluminum components and other weight saving upgrades there is still 300 extra pounds. Why? Of course it would be hard to keep adding power, features and performance at the same weight.

With regard to weight, of course lighter is better in general, but did you see or read this link? Useable power and performance for the non-professional driver is best with some weight for better traction. Extreme aero and track speeds to achieve downforce to augment light weight is not every day practical. Check WreckedExotics.com for good examples.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...no-san-mr-gt-r

Check the link below for Nurburgring times; there are several heavy cars on there that do pretty well like the GTR and Camaro. There are always trade offs to adding more weight with things like larger brakes, more powerful engines, more technology, hoping that the trade off leads to more performance. The 2008 GTR for instance is faster than a 2011 911 GT3 RS and a 2016 M4 GTS. There are more examples. Most cars that are lighter are considerably more expensive like the Lamborghini and employ expensive add ons like active aero and carbon fiber bodies or they have huge wings and other aero. It's hard to compare apples to apples and come away with lighter is always righter.

https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:54 AM   #1622
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And no, just NO. More weight is always bad. Maybe more weight, distributed considerably better, than a slightly lighter car is better, but overall more weight is never a desired trait for a sports car. It is the enemy of everything related to stopping, turning and accelerating.
To add a few more things about weight and performance...

Is AWD worth the weight in performance? Maybe it could be.

Is a dual clutch transmission worth the weight over a single clutch? Maybe.

Are larger brakes better? Maybe, depends.

Is a stiffer chassis or suspension better? Depends.

Is magnetic suspension better? Maybe.

Is ABS n other traction tech worth the weight? Maybe.

Will weight in general help with traction when aero is lacking? Maybe.

Adding weight can very well lead to better stopping, turning and accelerating. The fact that the GTR did the Nurburgring faster than cars with more power that are lighter is a testament to that fact.
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:51 AM   #1623
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post

Adding weight can very well lead to better stopping, turning and accelerating. The fact that the GTR did the Nurburgring faster than cars with more power that are lighter is a testament to that fact.
Wut? Are you pretending like that GTR wouldn't get a faster lap time if it was lighter? The added weight is a by-product of those parts and systems on the car, not a benefit. My brain hurts
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:45 AM   #1624
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Will weight in general help with traction when aero is lacking? Maybe.
I'll help out here. The answer is NO.

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Adding weight can very well lead to better stopping, turning and accelerating.
No, it can't. Acceleration obviously suffers with increased weight, but so do braking and cornering. It is due to the nonlinear relationship between the load on a tire and its grip. Add 10% more load and grip will increase by something less than 10%.

Say a 3000 lb. car generates 3000 lb. of cornering grip, so it can corner at 1-g (3000 lb. grip/3000 lb. weight). Add 10%, 300 lb., vertical load and now it makes maybe 3280 lb. of cornering grip. If that +10%/300 lb. load came from *downforce*, car can now corner at 3280/3000 = 1.09-g. But if 10%/300 lb. of MASS is added to the car instead, now it corners at 3280/3300 = 0.99-g.

More downforce = good for cornering/braking g's. More weight = bad.


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The fact that the GTR did the Nurburgring faster than cars with more power that are lighter is a testament to that fact.

GTR is fast in spite of its weight, not because of it. If adding weight made cars faster, race teams would do it to the extent that the rules allowed. Instead they remove as much weight as possible, to the extent the rules allow. But hey, maybe they're just idiots...

Last edited by ZDan; 08-29-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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