Questions and Discussion on Vortech Supercharging Systems

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Foobar

They're both on the same tune right? Or is there a separate one tweaked for 93?

I think its just the difference between map1 and map2

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by Foobar

They're both on the same tune right? Or is there a separate one tweaked for 93?

Different tune.

Before I had a 91 and 93 map , now I have one file that includes both.

The difference in the tune is the timing curve and fuel mixture.

John

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by Visconti

Different tune.

Before I had a 91 and 93 map , now I have one file that includes both.

The difference in the tune is the timing curve and fuel mixture.

John

Awesome - good to know. Thanks

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

I think its just the difference between map1 and map2

I was told that the two maps were identical, only difference was some RaceROM features enabled on 2.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Awesome - good to know. Thanks



I was told that the two maps were identical, only difference was some RaceROM features enabled on 2.

I was confused as to what exactly each map did as well, but found this on visconti website

7/22/13
RR-12445-ZA1JA01C/G/J-STG1 91 93 XBAR VORTECH v1.06-XXXXXX (Click here to learn how to decode the calibration file name)
1. Now includes a low octane and higher octane map
2. Now includes Oil Temp Warning Light (Check Engine Light Activates)

Map 1 - 91 Tune + 7800 Rev Limiter + Launch Control + Flat Foot Shifting
Map 2 - 93 Tune + 7800 Rev Limiter + Launch Control + Flat Foot Shifting

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

I was confused as to what exactly each map did as well, but found this on visconti website

7/22/13
RR-12445-ZA1JA01C/G/J-STG1 91 93 XBAR VORTECH v1.06-XXXXXX (Click here to learn how to decode the calibration file name)
1. Now includes a low octane and higher octane map
2. Now includes Oil Temp Warning Light (Check Engine Light Activates)

Map 1 - 91 Tune + 7800 Rev Limiter + Launch Control + Flat Foot Shifting
Map 2 - 93 Tune + 7800 Rev Limiter + Launch Control + Flat Foot Shifting

Ah good catch - this must have been when 91 and 93 were put into the same file, and thus changed the distinction between the two maps.

THANKS!

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

He contributes just fine.... this IS a thread about discussion on vortech systems, maybe he is annoyed that its starting to go off course and wants to defend the vortech system

The tuners did not unlock the vortech kit IMO... the upgraded compressor did

The new compressors have been out for months now. It hasn't been up until the past couple weeks that the Vortechs have started making BIG power. For example, this was a dyno of the Vortech kit with the new compressor and John's tune pre v1.06



and this was the same car, post 1.06 (admittedly, the pre dyno was before a borla header and an overpipe was installed, but there are numerous other examples out there showing similar results)



This fully supports my assertion that the Vortech kits were putting out similar numbers when they were first released (w/ new compressors even) as the Innovate kits are producing now. After seeing this, I'm not sure how you can say the tuners haven't unlocked the potential of the kit.

Again, i'm not bashing the vortech kit in any way. It's a great kit by all reports. I'm just saying comparing the vortech kit where tuners have had months to figure out how to extract the most power out of it, to the relatively new Innovate kit deserves some perspective.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

The new compressors have been out for months now. It hasn't been up until the past couple weeks that the Vortechs have started making BIG power. For example, this was a dyno of the Vortech kit with the new compressor and John's tune pre v1.06



and this was the same car, post 1.06 (admittedly, the pre dyno was before a borla header and an overpipe was installed, but there are numerous other examples out there showing similar results)



This fully supports my assertion that the Vortech kits were putting out similar numbers when they were first released (w/ new compressors even) as the Innovate kits are producing now. After seeing this, I'm not sure how you can say the tuners haven't unlocked the potential of the kit.

Again, i'm not bashing the vortech kit in any way. It's a great kit by all reports. I'm just saying comparing the vortech kit where tuners have had months to figure out how to extract the most power out of it, to the relatively new Innovate kit deserves some perspective.

The tune is by far the most important part of any aftermarket fi setup, or any car at all for that matter. Of course as people get more familiar things get better. It's just progress .

[Darryljr11]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

The new compressors have been out for months now. It hasn't been up until the past couple weeks that the Vortechs have started making BIG power. For example, this was a dyno of the Vortech kit with the new compressor and John's tune pre v1.06



and this was the same car, post 1.06 (admittedly, the pre dyno was before a borla header and an overpipe was installed, but there are numerous other examples out there showing similar results)



This fully supports my assertion that the Vortech kits were putting out similar numbers when they were first released (w/ new compressors even) as the Innovate kits are producing now. After seeing this, I'm not sure how you can say the tuners haven't unlocked the potential of the kit.

Again, i'm not bashing the vortech kit in any way. It's a great kit by all reports. I'm just saying comparing the vortech kit where tuners have had months to figure out how to extract the most power out of it, to the relatively new Innovate kit deserves some perspective.

Hey those are the dyno graphs for my car! Lol. Look how smooth the graph is after the header! I should also point out that before the header i had another map with an extra 20hp and after the header i have two maps. One with around 240hp/170tq and the map you see here.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by jamesm

The tune is by far the most important part of any aftermarket fi setup, or any car at all for that matter. Of course as people get more familiar things get better. It's just progress .

Exactly my point. I was just reminding people that comparing the two may not be as apples to apples as some vendors (who happen to sell one of these kits) might have you believe.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by Brian@Vortech

All true. Maybe I should have LOLed instead? I know I may have touched a nerve with you, because you have the Brand X on your car. My point was that perspective has to be kept here. If you want to compare that new Brand X kit to our original 6psi kit that isn't even sold anymore, I can agree with you all day. However, you can't compare it to the current system and say they make almost the same power, because it simply isn't true. No matter what, with similar mods, similar fuel, etc. under similar testing conditions, the 2 systems will not produce similar power...for a number of reasons. They are just 2 different products.

I can arrange to show this if you want to work something out... My friend has as you call Brand X supercharger. We are using the same tuner, same environments, hell we have the same aftermarket wheels!. The only difference being he has a different muffler and i have ~ 8k more miles on my car. He can easily reinstall the stock muffler and we can line them up.

I agree to both sides to an extent. Boost is boost, its not some magical myth to find a wormhole to build horsepower. The innovate is a tad more complex to tune as you have no accurate IAT readings due to MAF&IAT stock configuration. You also have a non inter cooled, metal manifold that can heat soak. Which is hard to read since you have no IAT to read it.

I can vouch that side by side the innovate does have a much better low end (much as in noticeable, not amazing) but around 5-6k the vortech just completely flips the table over to about the same difference the innovate had at low RPM.

No reason to bash both kits are great, and have their uses. The innovate is a blast to drive with the instant torque. There is a slight difference in "lag" on throttle between the two. The innovate truly feels like a displacement change. But overall the vortech has a smoother power delivery that is linear and doesn't "jerk" the car in motion with a massive torque change.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

The new compressors have been out for months now. It hasn't been up until the past couple weeks that the Vortechs have started making BIG power. For example, this was a dyno of the Vortech kit with the new compressor and John's tune pre v1.06



and this was the same car, post 1.06 (admittedly, the pre dyno was before a borla header and an overpipe was installed, but there are numerous other examples out there showing similar results)



This fully supports my assertion that the Vortech kits were putting out similar numbers when they were first released (w/ new compressors even) as the Innovate kits are producing now. After seeing this, I'm not sure how you can say the tuners haven't unlocked the potential of the kit.

Again, i'm not bashing the vortech kit in any way. It's a great kit by all reports. I'm just saying comparing the vortech kit where tuners have had months to figure out how to extract the most power out of it, to the relatively new Innovate kit deserves some perspective.

I based my statement off of dynos showing ~250whp when I ordered my kit earlier this year.... it seems some people were dynoing lower than that, but it should not take months to figure out how to extract huge jumps in power unless the tune was flawed to begin with

If two tunes are compared and one is higher than the other, I wouldn't say that tune unlocked more power... I would say the low power tune was just crap/not well tuned

There is a method behind tuning cars, when I was tuning I would lock the cams at set amounts of advance/retard... lets say 0/10/20/30/40/50 degrees. I would tune each cam angle, and then overlay the dyno graphs to see which came angles made power where. I have grossly oversimplified it, but if you have 5 tuners and they each tune the same car... I would expect their end results to be very close. Its not magic... one tuner does not have some magical knowledge or supreme insight that allows them to get more power vs a different tuner....

It also comes down to experience. Some tuners may be able to get better crusing mileage because they know that certain cam angles are just more efficient when at cruise. I will say that I have 2 tunes from different vendors, and they are vastly different in terms of power/fuel economy...

In the end, I don't think tuners are "finding" power in the kit, its just that the tunes are more mature and refined

[Darryljr11]

Low power tune was a base tune to get the car running. After dyno tuning or sending logs is when you make power with an updated tune. Hell i made 216 whp on my base tune and look at me now!

[charged86]

Originally Posted by Visconti

Absolutely never said that

I might have said that I pay a visit to vortech and did some work onsite, that doesn't mean they sell my tunes. They actually have some really talented guys working over there.. Their tuning is impressive.. Something I wouldn't say about everyone.

My 91 octane make 220-230, my 93 makes 250

So I miss understood or made that up

[sw20kosh]

From Dynojet graphs of innovate stg1 kits on pump gas.