ACE Header Independent Testing Results and Review - 199.6WHP on CA 91 Octane

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Well, it looks to me that OFH+OP gets almost the same power for half the price. So, for another $700+ you get like 3HP. I'm sure there is an EL for the price of the OFH that will get you that extra 3HP. I guess it boils down to other priorities, like FI + header potential or visual quality, or other things.

So, I'm not yet seeing the koolaide. LOL all you like

Let's assume stock makes 165 whp on drift office dyno which is on the low side for his dynojet on 92. Stock also makes 165 on CSG testing dyno.

According to your graph you posted, your setup makes 25 more whp on 92.

The ace combo makes 34 more whp on 91 ACN.

Do you have a FP? Do you know of any results of OFH + FP?

Test notes:
- There is a peak gain of 45lb/ft torque at the wheels on ACN 91
- There is a peak gain of 33.8WHP at the wheels on ACN 91



[B]

Also this:

- 199.6WHP on ACN 91. This is a short 4th gear pull. As you know, CSG does not do "hero" dynos. Just to see what we could do, by altering *how* we performed the pull, we were able to make the dyno read 209whp with ACN91, but this is not representative of real world performance. This 199.6WHP is repeatable all day, every day, under heater soaked conditions, at the track.

I also think people just glaze over this and don't take into account most dyno graphs posted on the forum are the highest run/s. And yes I am guilty of that as I go to a dynojet and pay for 3 pulls to get a readout. All my tuning has been done on the road. I think it is in good form that CSG posts heat soaked runs. They did the same thing when they posted JRSC runs which showed to be lower than drift office and other's runs by quite a bit.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Would be cheaper to just send the ACE to Drift-Officeand we could simply compare on 92... I just had him tune my OFH so we'd just need to compare with the ACE! Below is the OFH which cost me $700. If the ACE makes 200WHP on 92 on my car, I'll buy it...

Drift Office baselines seem to vary between 168whp and 173whp, depending on what is being compared, with 173 being more common when FI is being compared, whereas the 168 number is more common when comparing bolt ons.

For reference:

JRSC (w/ HKS, which DO showed to show no gain on FI) vs HKS vs Stock at DO



CSG's JRSC dyno (all 5th gear)



Regardless, a totally unscientific comparison between your OFH + 92 vs ACE + ACN 91.

[Apoc]

Are CSG's dyno pulls all done in 5th gear? It may also be a huge factor if comparing to other dynos done in 4th gear.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Apoc

Are CSG's dyno pulls all done in 5th gear? It may also be a huge factor if comparing to other dynos done in 4th gear.

We generally do 4th gear pulls, which plots out around ~7HP LESS than the 5th gear pulls. The 5th gear graph shown above by @CSG Mike just shows how dynos can be manipulated and inflated to show higher numbers with just a gear change. We also note that our numbers read lower despite what others post. In other words, we provide the smallest possible delta to show what the lower range of % gain can be obtained.

Alignment and tires also play a huge factor on dynojet readings as well, hence why we opt for the Dynapack to perform the measurements.

Side note: This engine loves octane...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Apoc

Are CSG's dyno pulls all done in 5th gear? It may also be a huge factor if comparing to other dynos done in 4th gear.

Strictly technically speaking, the gear doesn't matter on a dynapack. The ramp rate/pull duration does. But yes, our ramp rates are such that we're roughly equivalent to a 4th gear pull on a dynojet, and the pulls are performed in 4th gear.

[Roadcone]

so
much
want

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Strictly technically speaking, the gear doesn't matter on a dynapack. The ramp rate/pull duration does. But yes, our ramp rates are such that we're roughly equivalent to a 4th gear pull on a dynojet, and the pulls are performed in 4th gear.

not to be a stickler but you'll def have a difference in parasitic drag in different gears. 1st gear is going to eat far more power than 5th gear. much like going from a 4.10 to a 4.66 or whatever, i'd expect 5hp loss. the dyno cant get rid of friction upstream...

[BRZChix]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Would be cheaper to just send the ACE to @Drift-Office and we could simply compare on 92... I just had him tune my OFH so we'd just need to compare with the ACE! Below is the OFH which cost me $700. If the ACE makes 200WHP on 92 on my car, I'll buy it...

if u pay for the ACE + shipping, i don't see why @CSG Mike can't send u the ACE for ur testing purpose

[ohmai18]

Do we have pictures of the tested headers?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Let's assume stock makes 165 whp on drift office dyno which is on the low side for his dynojet on 92. Stock also makes 165 on CSG testing dyno.

According to your graph you posted, your setup makes 25 more whp on 92.

The ace combo makes 34 more whp on 91 ACN.

Do you have a FP? Do you know of any results of OFH + FP?



Also this:


I also think people just glaze over this and don't take into account most dyno graphs posted on the forum are the highest run/s. And yes I am guilty of that as I go to a dynojet and pay for 3 pulls to get a readout. All my tuning has been done on the road. I think it is in good form that CSG posts heat soaked runs. They did the same thing when they posted JRSC runs which showed to be lower than drift office and other's runs by quite a bit.

The other issue i see when comparing stock tune dyno runs on low grade fuel is the IAM .

The stock tune set IAM initial to 0.7 whereas most tuned cars will have IAM set to one and keep it their if tune is good for 91.

The IAM will get to one on untuned cars if its running 93 fuel but pretty unlikely on 91, however a couple of partial throttle low load runs can often get your iam close to 1 on 91 fuel.
I have seen cars on stock tune with iam less than 0.5 on lower grade fuels on stock tune, depending on how they are driven ie high load at lower rpm causes knock reducing iam and hence power.

Throw a car on the dyno with iam at 0.3 as oposed to one with iam at say 1 and you will get about 5 hp or more difference due reduction in timing.

If your on 93 fuel the iam on stock tune is pretty soilid at 1. and your running full timing in the maps.

if you reset the ecu on a stock tune you get iam =0.7 as oposed to most tuned cars where iam will go to 1 after reset.
On a stock tune you can only get iam to 1 by driving arround and getting minimal knock .

[AlexBinJackson]

Originally Posted by 2ndgenhachi

Very interested in seeing this with the JRSC as well. Curious how it compares with the tomei el that CSG is running.

Should have my header back from ceramic coating next week and will be at delicious tuning for some e85 and jrsc.

[2ndgenhachi]

Originally Posted by AlexBinJackson

Should have my header back from ceramic coating next week and will be at delicious tuning for some e85 and jrsc.

Jealous! Which header are u running? The ACE? looking forward to the numbers

[AlexBinJackson]

Originally Posted by 2ndgenhachi

Jealous! Which header are u running? The ACE? looking forward to the numbers

Currently have tomei uel on car but ace header is at ceramic coater

[2ndgenhachi]

My dream setup right there! So ready for the dyno results!

[Roadcone]

i know its the miracle header and all so far but has anyone mentioned what size the tubing is? also is it 2.5 or 3" collector?