2017 BRZ vs MX5 RF

[Kana]

brz looks so much better.

[Gforce]

Subaru/GT86 beats MX5 because it is a more serious car. Put a decent set of springs under an MX5 and it would come out at least equal to the BRZ. And there's lots of springs out there.

I'm pretty sure Mazda didn't and won't build a coupe because of the BRZ. Ditto why Subaru won't build an open car version.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Subaru/GT86 beats MX5 because it is a more serious car. Put a decent set of springs under an MX5 and it would come out at least equal to the BRZ. And there's lots of springs out there.

I'm pretty sure Mazda didn't and won't build a coupe because of the BRZ. Ditto why Subaru won't build an open car version.

More serious in what ways?

[Gforce]

The Subaru coupe version is intended for drivers who really want to learn how to drive. Subaru designed a chassis coupled with a modestly powered engine that is really fun to drive but as you learn more about driving makes you want to modify the chassis to reward the driver even more. Even older experienced drivers appreciate what Subaru tried to do with this car.

The MX5 is more fashionable and less hardcore off the showroom floor. The Mazda just needs a set of decent springs and shocks. The Subaru just needs a stiffer front anti roll bar.

[86Zed]

Having owned an FR-S for 50K miles and an ND RF Miata for the past 600 miles I feel somewhat qualified to judge.

Here's the short and sweet - Get the FR-S if you plan on spending time at the track, need real storage space, are not the type to ever drop the top or prefer the looks.

Simply put, the two cars are Mazda and Toyota's (also, Subaru) approach to accomplish the same thing. They feel SO similar and deliver the same style of thrills - I would not go so far to call either one definitely better than the other, it all depends on your personal preference and usage. The RF Miata is primarily my wife's car and she really enjoys the convertible aspect and more refined Mazda interior (her words, not mine).

[Spec C Wannabe]

Originally Posted by 86Zed

Having owned an FR-S for 50K miles and an ND RF Miata for the past 600 miles I feel somewhat qualified to judge.

Here's the short and sweet - Get the FR-S if you plan on spending time at the track, need real storage space, are not the type to ever drop the top or prefer the looks.

Simply put, the two cars are Mazda and Toyota's (also, Subaru) approach to accomplish the same thing. They feel SO similar and deliver the same style of thrills - I would not go so far to call either one definitely better than the other, it all depends on your personal preference and usage. The RF Miata is primarily my wife's car and she really enjoys the convertible aspect and more refined Mazda interior (her words, not mine).

Great summary! This is probably one of the simplest, most straight forward and unbiased opinion in regard to this subject.

[Decep]

Originally Posted by Train

Great read. I had seriously considered trading in the FR-S for the RF couple months back. To get some feel for the cabin, I went to the autoshow and sat in the car, and I immediately noticed the difference in seating position which killed it for me. I felt like I was sitting way too high up not only because my head was pretty much touching the roof, but also I just felt like I was sitting so high up in the cabin it felt like a civic/corolla/elantra/etc. I did feel that it was much more luxurious than the twins but thats not why I drive this car so...

Funny you say that, my mom's ND soft top i felt you sit very low especially compared to the last gen. It's also very cramped, and im only just under 6' with 32" inseam, so not super tall. It's quite a bit of fun though and the transmission i would say is a big step above our twins, just smooth, even after only a few thousand miles.

You sit fairly low in the twins but due to the flat engine mounted so low, you can still easily see over the hood or rest your arm on the door sill (kind of). So yeah, you're sitting low (you're reminded of this every time you enter or exit the vehicle) but it doesn't really FEEL like it.

The ND felt more like sitting in a bucket for me. As an aside, i think mazda did an amazing job on that car. Looks like it's worth double what they're charging, has an exotic look.

When i was shopping cars i wanted a miata but ended up with the feeling that i didn't want to drive one every day. If the twins didn't exist there would really be no other car that would have interested me... sad world it'd be without them!

[xuimod]

One thing a lot of people don't consider is when you drive a 86/FRS/BRZ, it attracts a lot of boy racer drivers. Other cars/drivers are always trying to show you up.

That almost never happens when driving a Miata.

I will say though if they were the same price, I would get an 86/FR-S over a MX-5.

In a year or so I might sell my MX-5 for a used FR-S.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Oh good, you posted the reason Mazda will never do that again so I don't have to.



The Miata is >400 lbs lighter, has a shorter wheelbase, and has better suspension design. The Miata advantage is that it's chassis is the least compromised, most focused design under $50k.

The following isn't terribly large, the 86 outsold the NC after only 3 years, and the ND is putting up worse numbers than the NC did.

Really? Is that true?

If so, then wow.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by xuimod

Really? Is that true?

If so, then wow.

Since I posted that the ND has pulled ahead of the FRZ86 by about a thousand units this year so it's doing well and on track to sell about 12k units this year (for reference the FR-S sold ~18k units in 2013, BRZ ~8.5k in 2013, and the NC moved ~16k units in 2006). The 86/BRZ will be about 10k units this year if the current trend holds, but early 86 sales were strong at >20k/year for the first three years. The NC only sold ~82k units over 10 years, the first gen BRZ/FR-S sold about 91k units over 5 years, maybe I was counting three model years from 2012-2015, idk why I phrased it that way.

Edit: US market by the way

MX-5
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

BRZ
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html
FR-S/86
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

[TrackRider54]

I've driven both, but at 6'5" I can't fit comfortably in the Miata. With the top up, it's a no go....but even with it down, I'm pretty much looking at the top of the windshield. The twins are VERY comfortable for me. Even more so than my Ford Escape which is my daily driver. Leg room is great, headroom is also plentiful.

Yes, the 86 weighs more, but by the time my 260lb self gets in the car, weight is not such a big deal. To me it's all about fun and feel.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Edit: US market by the way

MX-5
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

BRZ
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html
FR-S/86
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

Interesting to see how the trends are going for these cars. The BRZ is doing about the same it always has been; or slightly less. The FRS/86, on the other hand, has been pretty low this whole year so far compared to previous years. Like 5,000+ units off pace compared to 2013-2015.

Interesting to see because I see the new models everywhere lol. I see the new 86s almost as much as I see the old FRS.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Interesting to see how the trends are going for these cars. The BRZ is doing about the same it always has been; or slightly less. The FRS/86, on the other hand, has been pretty low this whole year so far compared to previous years. Like 5,000+ units off pace compared to 2013-2015.

I think you might be reading into the numbers a bit much, they're both on track to sell the same as they did last year with the brz maybe selling a few hundred more than in 2016, very typical drop off imo mid cycle refresh was never going to do much better than this on sales unless it's some bonkers performance increase like when the mustang got like 50+ hp for free in 2013.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

very typical drop off imo mid cycle refresh was never going to do much better than this on sales unless it's some bonkers performance increase like when the mustang got like 50+ hp for free in 2013.

Depends on the cars. I've see some cycle refreshes do fairly well.

The stats show that sales numbers have gone down and stayed there over the past 24 months for the 86/FRS. BRZ has stayed about the same. From the release until August 2015, they were moving about 1000+ per month. Since then, it's dropped down to around 600 per month.

2016 best was 688 units. 2015 best was 1274, with the worst being 588. 2014 best and worst was 1664 and 834, respectively. 2013 best and worst was 1937 and 1029, respectively.

These trends make me curious on exactly how much longer this car will be on sale for.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

These trends make me curious on exactly how much longer this car will be on sale for.

You're right it does depend on the cars, with respect to Japanese RWD sports cars however, it's doing excellent.

This doesn't have '15 or '16 in it, but the 86 has already outperformed every Japanese sports car in the last 15 years except the NB Miata and 350Z. This chart is a bit outdated, but it gives you some perspective, especially when you consider the ND is only on track to hit 12k units this year.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this thing will still be rolling out of the factory well past 2020.