Prospective BRZ buyer

[zander21510]

Hello all!

To make a long story short...I'm currently in Lemon Law proceedings with my barely 6 month old Jeep Cherokee...the 9 speed transmission is garbage...and I should have done better research before I blew my money and time on that vehicle. It's got recurring & severe problems with many folks. I have a lemon law case in the works and hoping for a repurchase or settlement within 3-5 months, at which point I'll be getting a new car.

So this time around, I'm doing some deep, serious research on cars, and did some soul-searching for what I really wanted in a car I plan to keep for the next 10+ years.

Of the 3 I've narrowed it down to, the BRZ looks to be the most fun, affordable, and enthusiast-oriented car of my considerations (VW Jetta TDI & Mazda 3), even if it's not the most practical choice. I'd say it's currently front-runner in my mind.

I'm a long-time contributor to JeepForum (restoring my dad's '95 Grand Cherokee) so I know how the forums work...I've done searches and haven't seen any red flags as far as reliability or driveability issues beyond stuff like the torque dip and the 'it doesn't have enough HP' stuff.

So I wanted to ask a few personal opinions of the community members here:

1. My dad has a Subaru and it's bulletproof, so I naturally gravitate toward the Subaru variant. Why did you personally choose the BRZ over the FR-S?
2. Any good discussion threads on 2016 BRZ features? Not a huge factor but I'm really interested in seeing if Android Auto makes it to the infotainment system.
3. Any Daily Driver BRZ's out there, is the rough ride really an issue? This would mainly be the car I drive to and from work & for fun, the fiancee is going to get the Forrester for family/general use.
4. Call me sacrilegious, but I'm going to get the Automatic variant mainly for the fuel economy, my lack of experience with stick, and since I'll be in traffic a good 40% of the time. Any strong opinions for or against the automatic from personal experience?
5. As far as mods, I tend to do small, incremental upgrades here and there. I read that a $500 tuner tablet thing you can plug in and use to tune yourself is a good investment even on a stock BRZ. Anyone with opinions on that?
6. Any other suggestions, comments, or warnings for me?

Thanks so much, hope that if I pull the trigger I can contribute to the community.

[JS + BRZ]

1. BRZ had the better interior option in Limited trim. I personaly hate those crappy looking premium knobs in the center console. I liked the BRZ front end better since it looks more mature.

2. Not sure.

3. I DD my car and I don't find the ride as an issue at all. This is obviously subjective.

4. The automatic in this car is pretty good. It's just more fun with a stick. If you have to sit in the traffic for +40% of the time, I won't blame you for getting an automatic.

5. You don't need to do any power mods. Just do wheels/tires/coilovers and become a better driver. You can literally just use that $500 to swap out your stock tires with something much better on the stock wheels.

6. You are cross shopping BRZ/Jetta TDI/Mazda3. The BRZ is a completely different car from the other two. You know what you are getting into. Just drive all three and go for the one that you like the most.

Have fun shopping!

[nastynate88]

1. I vibed with the BRZ more than I did with the FR-S. Plus, I wanted WRB

2. The 2016 has a standard backup camera and a new powder blue color

3. Lots of people on the board daily drive the car, but whether or not that will work for you is entirely up to you

4. I don't recommend picking up the automatic, because it takes away a major part of the "fun factor" of the car (Great handling, great steering, great gearbox). Most of the guys I've spoken to regret not getting the stick. The car is also incredibly boring on highways, so unless you have some nice curvy roads around you, this car will not live to the hype. This car was made for a very specific niche of drivers/enthusiasts and not everyone who jumps into the drivers seat appreciates what the car is. YMMV

5. You're referring to the Open Flash Tablet, and it's pretty awesome. I've been running the stage 1 tune on a stock motor and it's fantastic. Car always feels like it's having a good day

6. Every driver is different. The Jeep you just got out of is a vastly different car than the BRZ, and the latter is not on par in terms of creature comforts and the like and you may not enjoy it.

[White64Goat]

My answers:
1. Bought BRZ because it had more creature comforts, heated seats, leather and because I could not fit in the Factory Five Racing 33 Hot Rod kit.
2. Haven't seen any yet.
3. Depends on your definition of rough. I'm almost 60 and I've driven this car to Atlantic City a couple of times with no regrets or dis-comfort. It's a sports car and it doesn't ride like a Caddy.
4. Buy what you can drive. I haven't seen many actual complaints of the auto being crummy.
5. Unless you're a tuner, I'd find a shop who can do it for you and maybe has a dyno. Not saying you can't do it yourself, but if you're not experienced at it, myself, I wouldn't do it that way.
6. Enjoy it. You will see a lot of posts about the direct injection making a noise. It's annoying to some and not to others.

[Tan]

1. There are very few differences between the two, especially from a reliability perspective since they literally come off the same assembly lines. Under the hood of an FR-S you'll see Subaru written all over the place.

3. Roughness of the ride depends on the roads where you are from and your own preferences. Toronto roads aren't the best but I am doing okay with mine, dodging potholes and avoiding rough roads when I can. It's really not that bad but since it's a subjective thing, you really should test drive and decide for yourself.

4. If you are really looking for an "enthusiast-oriented" car, then you may regret getting an automatic down the road. However, if it's just a stop-go traffic, commuter car for you, then automatic may be fine, but then maybe BRZ is not the right car the purpose.

[zander21510]

Thanks for the posts so far.

For some background on my thought process:

I've always loved my old '95 Jeep, I wrenched on it when I was in high school on into College. Kept it going long past it's time. After graduation, I got a great job and the first thing I wanted was a new car.

In high school I always wanted a Challenger or a Mustang with a big 'ol V8, and the new Jeeps of the time were either too big & slow or too impractical. Only a year before I graduated college the new Cherokee came out and I was totally hyped on it, because it was the same size as my '95 and had basically everything I wanted.

My mistake came when I only test drove the Cherokee once and signed on the dotted line the same day without even trying another car, not even the Challenger that I had my eye on as well. I turned a blind eye to what people were saying about the 9-speed, and bought it WAY too fast. I gave it an honest shot to try and ignore the little problems. But 8 dealership repairs later and I had enough. No more new Jeeps until they get their crap together.

And now I have a fiancee and her need for a new car in the equation, limiting my budget, so no chance for a Mustang or Challenger that isn't neutered.

I took the approach of having a Top 3 where each car has it's own unique advantage over the others. The BRZ is the fun, sporty, if impractical car. The Mazda 3 is the loaded-with-electronics & practical vehicle. The VW TDI is the diesel-torquey, conservatively styled car.

Looking over how I drive and what I've always wanted in a car, is that I actually enjoy even monotonous commute driving, and always 100% pay attention to the road. I barely look at the gauges let alone my phone or the infotainment when I'm driving. I tend to drive aggressively but I'm always paying attention and staying safe around other drivers.

I thought the Cherokee would be fun & capable, unfortunately even the Trailhawk I got was more oriented for the mommy who wants the leather & XM Radio...hell the thing even has it's own WiFi hotspot (that you can buy by the day). Not exactly for someone who likes a responsive, capable, & nimble vehicle. I guess I was dumb for thinking even the larger-engined offroad model would be anything more than just a big, fat SUV.

So I see the BRZ with a refreshingly simple & out of the way infotainment, manual seats, basic LCD dash screens & cheap headliner, and I'm way more excited about it than the stupid giant screen and electronic gimmicks on the Mazda 3. I loved how the thing handled when I test drove it, how the steering is heavy and responsive, and how it just felt great to drive. I didn't get that from the Mazda or the VW.

Even as a tech guy, I'm pretty much over the creature comforts & electronics. Car companies don't know how to make decent electronics, so I'd rather have a well-rounded & excellent driving experience.

[strat61caster]

1. They roll out of the same factory with a different badge or interior tacked on at the end, mechanical reliability should be identical. Choose based on looks, features (HID's, alacantara, headunit) and price. All other factors will have zero impact on the car other than emotional.
I chose FR-S because I despise touch screen headunits (fuck yeah physical buttons), HID's (I did a lot of night driving), leather, and it was cheaper at the time.

2. Unlikely that Android Auto will make it as this is a budget car and those systems take a lot of time to implement due to the industry focus on technology that has to work reliably for 5+ years with minimal service, probably the best bet is that you could install an aftermarket unit in a year or two. imo the changes between years are almost meaningless, just grab the best deal for the car that strikes your fancy.

3. Personal preference, as a driver I have no issues, I do feel guilty for passengers though when what should be a quiet uneventful ride seems like it may rattle some fillings. All you can do is drive it around on a long test drive to see how you feel.

4. Everything I've heard is that the Auto is great. But I wouldn't trade my MT for anything, I'm at 2.5 years, ~38k miles, and a lot of time in stop and go SF Bay Area traffic (and some LA traffic). Hitting an on/off ramp and downshifting to second and winding the engine out is one of the things that keeps me sane, not to mention AutoX and HPDE. But I'm insane to begin with and I have found the joy of heel-toeing in traffic for no other reason than to put a smile on my face.
Get what you want, period.

5. Opinions are mixed, OFT is a great little thing that many people love and should be a noticeable improvement in engine management according to most people. However for real improvements you're going to want to go to a professional tuner which is unlikely to want to work with OFT so you will end up buying an ECUTek license to support heavy power modifications. There are lots of options depending on your priorities, an exhaust and OFT tune for the part should be a noticeable amount of power along with the noise improvement with relatively little hassle.
I'm up to ~$1.5k spent on the car, I've bought camber bolts, 4 wheel alignment, brake pads, brake fluid, and tires because my priority is on the occasional AutoX and track day. All of those upgrades target known weaknesses with the car in terms of performance driving.

Edit: Based on your post above about enjoying driving even in traffic: give the manual transmission a shot and read what I say in response to #4. I am incredibly happy with mine.

Edit 2: I love the simple headunit, it bluetooth connects to my phone and I stream spotify off of it, if I turn maps on it will read directions over the speakers, and I can answer phone calls easily with the push of a (physical) button without taking my eyes off the road. Just my two cents, the base headunit on the '13 FR-S is the only one I've liked so far. The car bounces around too much to use the touch screen effectively.

[JS + BRZ]

Originally Posted by zander21510

I took the approach of having a Top 3 where each car has it's own unique advantage over the others. The BRZ is the fun, sporty, if impractical car. The Mazda 3 is the loaded-with-electronics & practical vehicle. The VW TDI is the diesel-torquey, conservatively styled car.

Looking over how I drive and what I've always wanted in a car, is that I actually enjoy even monotonous commute driving, and always 100% pay attention to the road. I barely look at the gauges let alone my phone or the infotainment when I'm driving. I tend to drive aggressively but I'm always paying attention and staying safe around other drivers.

If you care about the driving experience that much, you should definitely go for a BRZ. The other two are not even in the same realm at all.

Maybe the new model year BRZs have an upgraded infotainment sytem. The stock unit i nmy 2013 BRZ sucks. Well, good thing it's 2015. Google does everything.

[JohnBgon]

Originally Posted by nastynate88

2. The 2016 has a standard backup camera and a new powder blue color

Where are you finding this information? Based off the 2016 FRS stats?

I could only find new features for the 2016 FRS online. I am wanting the backup camera factory installed but would prefer HID lights and Limited interior features of the BRZ. As you'd expect, Subaru dealers I've contacted are full of information.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by JohnBgon

Where are you finding this information? Based off the 2016 FRS stats?

I could only find new features for the 2016 FRS online. I am wanting the backup camera factory installed but would prefer HID lights and Limited interior features of the BRZ. As you'd expect, Subaru dealers I've contacted are full of information.

Yeah, there's nothing official from Subaru of America... but the Canadian brochure makes no mention of a backup camera for the canadian brz.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88692

[Summerwolf]

1. My dad has a Subaru and it's bulletproof, so I naturally gravitate toward the Subaru variant. Why did you personally choose the BRZ over the FR-S?

BRZ looks better, in limited trim the interior is nicer with the leather, and it came in WRB.

2. Any good discussion threads on 2016 BRZ features? Not a huge factor but I'm really interested in seeing if Android Auto makes it to the infotainment system.

Don't care

3. Any Daily Driver BRZ's out there, is the rough ride really an issue? This would mainly be the car I drive to and from work & for fun, the fiancee is going to get the Forrester for family/general use.

Yes I DD mine. Gas mileage isn't the greatest (mid 20's) because I'm always stomping it. Ride is rough, but not intolerable. If my girlfriend and I go somewhere I usually drive.

4. Call me sacrilegious, but I'm going to get the Automatic variant mainly for the fuel economy, my lack of experience with stick, and since I'll be in traffic a good 40% of the time. Any strong opinions for or against the automatic from personal experience?

Automatics are not worth looking at.

5. As far as mods, I tend to do small, incremental upgrades here and there. I read that a $500 tuner tablet thing you can plug in and use to tune yourself is a good investment even on a stock BRZ. Anyone with opinions on that?

I would save the money. Drive it stock until you get a nice exhaust and a forced induction kit. Invest in real tuning when you have real mods.

6. Any other suggestions, comments, or warnings for me?

Like squeaky windows, dropping in to your seat, crickets, and wishing you had more power....a lot.

[soulreapersteve]

Originally Posted by JohnBgon

Where are you finding this information? Based off the 2016 FRS stats?

I could only find new features for the 2016 FRS online. I am wanting the backup camera factory installed but would prefer HID lights and Limited interior features of the BRZ. As you'd expect, Subaru dealers I've contacted are full of information.

If I recall correctly, somewhere in that 2016 FRS thread, a few members stated all 2016+ car models had to have factory backup cameras installed by US law.

Can't find an official document from the government, just articles about it after Google search.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by soulreapersteve

Can't find an official document from the government, just articles about it after Google search.

May 2018: http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Pre...ity+Technology

[extrashaky]

1. My dad has a Subaru and it's bulletproof, so I naturally gravitate toward the Subaru variant. Why did you personally choose the BRZ over the FR-S?

We still don't know if this car is bulletproof, because not a whole lot of them have made it to six figure mileage yet. I will say that the paint chips easily and the body panels are very thin for weight reduction. I have no reason to believe the drive train will not last like other Subarus, but only time will tell.

I selected the BRZ primarily because the suspension was tuned a little differently from the FR-S. The FR-S is tuned to be more tail-happy, whereas the BRZ is tuned to hug corners.

3. Any Daily Driver BRZ's out there, is the rough ride really an issue?

That is a pretty subjective question. I put 30K miles on mine in my first year on horrible Louisiana roads, and I didn't mind it. But then, my first car was a Triumph, and we had MGs in the family when I was growing up. This car is a lot more civilized and doesn't beat the shit out of you like those could. My gauge on what's a "rough" ride is a little skewed.

To me, this car has a stiff ride, not a rough ride. Whether that works for you will really depend on you. You'll need to test drive it and see how it feels.

Somewhere above someone mentioned the car being boring on the highway. It's not really any more boring than any other car on the highway. I think it's fairly comfortable, and I drive pretty long distances. I also consider it to be pretty practical for long trips, because it gets good gas mileage and will fit a suit bag and roll-aboard in the trunk with the rear seat up. I usually keep the seat down, so I could fit quite a bit more in there if necessary. It does everything I need it to for the kind of traveling I do. When I bought my rims, I actually drove to Texas to pick them up in the BRZ. I fit all four rims in their original boxes, a roll-aboard bag and a laptop backpack in the car for the trip back.

Coming from an SUV, you do have to keep in mind that you can't buy a shop vac on impulse at Lowe's and have a way to get it home. I keep my XJ Cherokee around for those situations.

4. Call me sacrilegious, but I'm going to get the Automatic variant mainly for the fuel economy, my lack of experience with stick, and since I'll be in traffic a good 40% of the time. Any strong opinions for or against the automatic from personal experience?

Don't do it. The auto is fine, but this car really deserves the manual transmission. It doesn't really get uncomfortable in traffic unless you have a lot of steep hills. Plano is nowhere near hilly enough that I would consider it a problem.

5. As far as mods, I tend to do small, incremental upgrades here and there. I read that a $500 tuner tablet thing you can plug in and use to tune yourself is a good investment even on a stock BRZ. Anyone with opinions on that?

Don't start modifying the car in your mind before you even have it. Drive it for a while in stock form before you get into that. The car will tell you what it needs. At some point you'll be driving along and think, "I wish this car had _____." That's when you know what modification you need.

6. Any other suggestions, comments, or warnings for me?

Yes, look at your later post:

Originally Posted by zander21510

In high school I always wanted a Challenger or a Mustang with a big 'ol V8, and the new Jeeps of the time were either too big & slow or too impractical... And now I have a fiancee and her need for a new car in the equation, limiting my budget, so no chance for a Mustang or Challenger that isn't neutered.

Let's make this clear: This is NOT a fast car. It is quick and nimble, and few cars on the road corner like this one. It was designed not for speed, but for balance. In that sense it is a pleasure to drive. But if straight-line acceleration is your thing as your other car choices seem to indicate, you may be underwhelmed by the BRZ.

Personally, I don't care about that. Here's why:

Once I was doing 60 on a country road when an idiot in a Grand Cherokee came flying up behind me on a straight and started tailgating. I didn't speed up. I didn't slow down. I just kept right on going 60. Then we got into the curves. I kept going 60. The GC went sideways into the other lane, overcorrected and ran off onto the shoulder. He recovered rather miraculously, but after that he kept a respectful distance and slowed down.

I could have easily taken that first curve at 80. Not many cars on the road could. Acceleration from red light to red light is meaningless on that country road. And that maneuverability is handy not just on curvy roads, but also in zipping around through town while dodging idiots and surprises in the road.

Originally Posted by nastynate88

2. The 2016 has a standard backup camera and a new powder blue color

Originally Posted by JohnBgon

Where are you finding this information?

The hideous Hyper Blue was unveiled earlier in the month. There was a thread on it here. I think it's the first real mistake they've made with the BRZ.