Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Couldn't we say some of the same things about the 86, though? .

You could, and I have said some of those things about the 86. Honestly it still reminds me more of a 240Z class car than the Toyota supposed legacy, from a pure outward design view.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

More complicated than the situation between BMW and Toyota?

Possibly, in terms of the development of the car. It's a teamwork situation between both manufactures, for sure. Toyota looks to be needing the help in the engine department with both cars primarily ( either they can't develop/manufacturer there own for what ever reasons, or figures it would just be more efficent to team up with a well respected car manufacture in motorsports to then mostly (95%+) make the engine ( and most likely tranny), for their new sports car. It'll be interesting to see if either engine 4cyl or V6 has been in production with BMW....but they made some tweeks to it, or if they are full 100% from the ground up new engines for 2019.

Beyond BMW supplying the engine / tranny , not so sure what other development they are participating with on the Supra ( suspension, safety, interior/exterior design, etc. Where as we all know by now who contributed what, with developing the FR-S / BRZ in thru 2011, that is all history that can be read / researched. We are probably 3-6 months away from learning the full Supra story....at least for the first model year.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

That's kind of how I read it too. We will see I guess.

The scary part of that comment is that it was posted by Toyota in an interview that would have been reviewed and vetted by several people before it was approved for release. It isn't some off the cuff statement that could be misinterpreted or twisted by a writer looking for clicks.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by HachiRokuX

I can’t help but think the new Supra will be criticized the same way the 86 is right now. I already see people saying

-“lol I could get a used XYZ for the price of a Supra” (valid though)
-“Auto only lol”

Remember in 2010..'11, Toyota was saying the FR-S was going to be $20k, but as debuted 2012-2016 it was $25k starting. That is a $5k increase, or 25% increase in price. If they say the Supra will start at about $40K for the 4cyl turbo, do the math.

If they don't make a manual, it will push away a certain % of the car buying population looking to buy a sports car in the coming year. Having options of transmission types is a good thing, in general. Manual will be lighter, and manuals tend to be less cost when buying a car new.

[tennisfreak]

The B58 is a sweet engine.

Zero turbo lag, easy to modify, and capable of handling much more power.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Possibly, in terms of the development of the car. It's a teamwork situation between both manufactures, for sure. Toyota looks to be needing the help in the engine department with both cars primarily ( either they can't develop/manufacturer there own for what ever reasons, or figures it would just be more efficent to team up with a well respected car manufacture in motorsports to then mostly (95%+) make the engine ( and most likely tranny), for their new sports car. It'll be interesting to see if either engine 4cyl or V6 has been in production with BMW....but they made some tweeks to it, or if they are full 100% from the ground up new engines for 2019.

Beyond BMW supplying the engine / tranny , not so sure what other development they are participating with on the Supra ( suspension, safety, interior/exterior design, etc. Where as we all know by now who contributed what, with developing the FR-S / BRZ in thru 2011, that is all history that can be read / researched. We are probably 3-6 months away from learning the full Supra story....at least for the first model year.

If the guys over at the Supra forum (I only lurk there) are even close to being correct then the vast majority (driveline, suspension, steering, brakes) of the car is all out BMW with very few Toyota parts involved. The body and interior are however supposed to almost totally different from each other. Pics of the exposed parts of the interior still show a heavy BMW influence but those parts could change in the production vehicles.
All speculation and statements from "insiders" of course so as you said the reality remains to be seen. Supposedly in the fairly near future.

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Remember in 2010..'11, Toyota was saying the FR-S was going to be $20k, but as debuted 2012-2016 it was $25k starting. That is a $5k increase, or 25% increase in price. If they say the Supra will start at about $40K for the 4cyl turbo, do the math.

If they don't make a manual, it will push away a certain % of the car buying population looking to buy a sports car in the coming year. Having options of transmission types is a good thing, in general. Manual will be lighter, and manuals tend to be less cost when buying a car new.

"They" haven't said anything about a price at any point. People have guessed what the price will be but they are only guesses. There has also never been any official statement that there will be no MT. Technically all we really know is that Tada says people will like it.

[HachiRokuX]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Remember in 2010..'11, Toyota was saying the FR-S was going to be $20k, but as debuted 2012-2016 it was $25k starting. That is a $5k increase, or 25% increase in price. If they say the Supra will start at about $40K for the 4cyl turbo, do the math.



If they don't make a manual, it will push away a certain % of the car buying population looking to buy a sports car in the coming year. Having options of transmission types is a good thing, in general. Manual will be lighter, and manuals tend to be less cost when buying a car new.

Agreed 100%, especially on the transmission thing. But when you put everything on that list together plus other criticisms I’ve seen, it doesn’t look like the Supra will be a hit among enthusiasts or the casual car buyer (with money) at 60k+ sadly.

That said, a lot of criticism I’ve seen comes from people who probably can’t afford the car, have probably never been in a Supra, but worship at the altar of the 2JZ and F&F movies and are parroting the negative rumors rather than actually doing the research about the new Supra themselves. Toyota really needs to come out and give launch details.


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[Tcoat]

@HachiRokuX - can't quote you for some reason


So many people get mad at me when I say that much of the Supra/2JZ mystic is from video games and movies but why else would a bunch of 20 something's have such a love affair with a car most have never even seen in person much less actually drove?


Even Toyota recognized this condition when they made the formal announcement that the FT1 would indeed be called the Supra.



"The Toyota Supra still enjoys an iconic status among sports car aficionados, 16 years on from the end of production. Its enduring popularity has been helped by its success as a popular model in the Gran Turismo® driving simulator video game series, which is only playable on PlayStation consoles, and as a starring car in the first film in The Fast and the Furious global action movie series."
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...ng+concept.htm


They know who they are targeting with this car and it may not be the group that can actually afford it.

[yurikaze]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

[MENTION=143534]


"The Toyota Supra still enjoys an iconic status among sports car aficionados, 16 years on from the end of production. Its enduring popularity has been helped by its success as a popular model in the Gran Turismo® driving simulator video game series, which is only playable on PlayStation consoles, and as a starring car in the first film in The Fast and the Furious global action movie series."
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...ng+concept.htm


They know who they are targeting with this car and it may not be the group that can actually afford it.

A lot of people who grew up with the original Gran Turismo in high school or college are now in their late-30's. I'd say the time is right for these Supra loving professionals who are getting to the point in their careers where they are well-established with disposable income to buy the modern version of the car they've always admired. I'm certainly in this demographic. Gran Turismo is the reason I bought my MkIII Supra turbo in college, and I have many fond memories of that car (as well as the rusting hulk of the car itself. And two parts cars. And a '91 Supra I bought because I missed driving the the first one.)
I had been thinking about a CPO Porsche 911, but the Supra is rising to the top of my choices. The automatic isn't a turn off any longer. I commute in LA, and as long as I have at least one fun car with a manual, I'm fine with the daily being automatic, especially a fun paddle-shifted one.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

That's kind of how I read it too. We will see I guess.

Where is this thread?

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nah. The market will be flooded by all the guys trading their cars to buy $40K 4 cylinder Supras! The 86s will all just rot away forgotten on dealer lots for the next 30 years.

The US government is currently contemplating putting 10-25% Trump Tariffs on imported cars. Toyota is considering not importing some models and raising the prices of the ones they do. That $40K 4 banger Supra could easily cost $50K or not come to the US at all.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...5Vb?li=BBnbfcN


It is also possible that the Toyota 86 could get cut from the import list because it is a low seller with a small profit margin.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by yurikaze

A lot of people who grew up with the original Gran Turismo in high school or college are now in their late-30's. I'd say the time is right for these Supra loving professionals who are getting to the point in their careers where they are well-established with disposable income to buy the modern version of the car they've always admired. I'm certainly in this demographic. Gran Turismo is the reason I bought my MkIII Supra turbo in college, and I have many fond memories of that car (as well as the rusting hulk of the car itself. And two parts cars. And a '91 Supra I bought because I missed driving the the first one.)
I had been thinking about a CPO Porsche 911, but the Supra is rising to the top of my choices. The automatic isn't a turn off any longer. I commute in LA, and as long as I have at least one fun car with a manual, I'm fine with the daily being automatic, especially a fun paddle-shifted one.

Sorry I did sort of accidently imply there would be no market at all except for young gamers. Wasn't what I meant. Yes, there will be a limited demographic that both loves the car for it's reputation in movies and games and can/will actually buy it.
Before anybody else misunderstand I am also not saying the old versions were not great cars simply that there is a huge following that have no real world experience with them. Those that could get their hands on one way back when may be interested but discover it just isn't the same no matter what they called it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Where is this thread?

You are in it. It is this one. Go back to post #2558.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Rampage

The US government is currently contemplating putting 10-25% Trump Tariffs on imported cars. Toyota is considering not importing some models and raising the prices of the ones they do. That $40K 4 banger Supra could easily cost $50K or not come to the US at all.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...5Vb?li=BBnbfcN


It is also possible that the Toyota 86 could get cut from the import list because it is a low seller with a small profit margin.

True but that is going to apply to many, many cars so if prices go up it will still be on an even setting with everything else. Unless of course you want to buy a Mustang or Camaro since they would all of a sudden be 10-25% cheaper in comparison to the imports.
I could see them dropping the 86 in the US in a heartbeat if the tariffs are applied.