follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting

Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-09-2019, 09:37 AM   #1
Petah78
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Drives: 2022 BRZ sport-tech
Location: Canada
Posts: 395
Thanks: 343
Thanked 185 Times in 116 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Oil coolers for DD/HDPE cars...

I recently picked up a 2017 BRZ as a daily/track day car to replace my 8th gen SI. My track use consists of 4-5 two hours track sessions a season. I have been reading up on this car quite a bit and it appears that an oil cooler is an ideal upgrade if the car sees track time. However, they are not without problems considering that I live in the North and our harsh winters can cause quite a bit of problems. Problems include oil never getting up to operational temp (-13F ambient is not uncommon), exposure to road salt rotting out the cooler and hardware, potential leaks etc. I also don’t want the oil cooler to create any warranty issues down the road as it still carries a 3 year powertrain warranty. On the contrary, I have also heard of members indicating as that as long as you use a quality synthetic and up the weight to 5W-30, an oil cooler is not an absolute requirement, especially with the relatively limited track use. I am sure there are members in the same situation as me and I wanted to gauge what others have done. In the past, I have never needed an oil cooler on the past cars but they were all Honda B and K series engines which are quite robust.

Thanks.
Petah78 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Petah78 For This Useful Post:
7 skulls (12-09-2019)
Old 12-09-2019, 09:49 AM   #2
BigTuna
Senior Member
 
BigTuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: 2013 WRB BRZ
Location: Ohio
Posts: 672
Thanks: 258
Thanked 477 Times in 275 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
There are a few companies that make oil coolers with thermostatic sandwich plates to help with cold starts. There is also the OEM WRX/Forester oil cooler kit that might be of interest to you. There is definitely the risk of the warranty issues if the dealer is picky. The OEM version would be much easier to hide since its really just a sandwich plate and a couple small coolant hoses.
__________________
BigTuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 10:07 AM   #3
TrqlessWonder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: 2014 FR-S
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 287
Thanks: 127
Thanked 148 Times in 93 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm using a mishimoto cooler with the thermostatic sandwich plate. It's not had any troubles to-date. We've seen <10*F a couple of times.
__________________
-Mike
#24 CS/CSR
TrqlessWonder is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TrqlessWonder For This Useful Post:
Opie (12-10-2019)
Old 12-09-2019, 11:10 AM   #4
pgranberg11
BoostedBRZ
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: Turbo BRZ
Location: IL
Posts: 689
Thanks: 171
Thanked 258 Times in 190 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
FYI, even with the thermostatic plates, oil will still bleed through and it will cool down. I live in Chicago, and during the winter months I just had to shove a piece of cardboard in between my bumper grille and the oil cooler itself and it helped to keep the temperature in check. When the warmer months came, I removed it.
pgranberg11 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pgranberg11 For This Useful Post:
DarkPira7e (12-09-2019)
Old 12-09-2019, 11:20 AM   #5
ka-t_240
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: BRZ
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 968
Thanks: 124
Thanked 327 Times in 236 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You can block off the cooler core in the winter to keep air flow off of it, should help w/ reducing the effect of the cold weather on the core. The FXT style heat exchange may help in your case, but they often don't provide enough capacity for extended track use.

Did I read 2 hour session correctly? Like non stop?
ka-t_240 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 11:27 AM   #6
ls1ac
Senior Member
 
ls1ac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: BRZ, Noble M400, AC-LS7,1956 AC
Location: Wi/Fl
Posts: 1,022
Thanks: 328
Thanked 867 Times in 471 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Most of the better "plates" have a thermostat built in. In the winter duck tape over the oil radiator will help. Your engine is then running as the stock setup, as the extra cooler is only an add on.
ls1ac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 11:44 AM   #7
86TOYO2k17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2017 toyota 86
Location: PNW
Posts: 2,131
Thanks: 336
Thanked 1,188 Times in 781 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgranberg11 View Post
FYI, even with the thermostatic plates, oil will still bleed through and it will cool down. I live in Chicago, and during the winter months I just had to shove a piece of cardboard in between my bumper grille and the oil cooler itself and it helped to keep the temperature in check. When the warmer months came, I removed it.
The thermostat allows 10% flow until 30F degrees below full open at which point it slowly opens proportional to the temperature, so a 180F thermostat will have 10% flow below 150F, at 150F it starts to open so at 165F i believe it should have 55% flow. This 10% flow is to eliminate drastic temp differences in the oil cooler/lines vs the oil in the pan/block. Because of this i replaced my 180F mocal thermostat with a 192F thermostat, as well as running the forester heat exchanger. This helps get my temps to 170F in a reasonable amount of time in cold weather without having to block off the oil cooler.
86TOYO2k17 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 86TOYO2k17 For This Useful Post:
ka-t_240 (12-10-2019)
Old 12-09-2019, 12:57 PM   #8
Petah78
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Drives: 2022 BRZ sport-tech
Location: Canada
Posts: 395
Thanks: 343
Thanked 185 Times in 116 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thank you for all the suggestions. I have thought about blocking off the oil cooler in the winter but that doesn't help with salt exposure (if it's even a problem), potential leakages and potential warranty issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
There are a few companies that make oil coolers with thermostatic sandwich plates to help with cold starts. There is also the OEM WRX/Forester oil cooler kit that might be of interest to you. There is definitely the risk of the warranty issues if the dealer is picky. The OEM version would be much easier to hide since its really just a sandwich plate and a couple small coolant hoses.

Thanks. But I have read that this setup doesn't really help all that much once you get on the track and start driving the car harder.


Quote:
You can block off the cooler core in the winter to keep air flow off of it, should help w/ reducing the effect of the cold weather on the core. The FXT style heat exchange may help in your case, but they often don't provide enough capacity for extended track use.

Did I read 2 hour session correctly? Like non stop?
My local track offers 2 hours lapping evenings with no run groups. During the 2 hours, you can run as much as you want. I usually attend 4-5 events per summer. However, I would normally only do 20 mins session before pitting and resting myself/car.
Petah78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 01:10 PM   #9
Takumi788
JHerbert Racing
 
Takumi788's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Drives: 2013 Scion FRS
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 1,425
Thanks: 769
Thanked 1,186 Times in 593 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Garage
I will always plug my favorite oil cooler setup when I see these threads. Check out Maximal Performance's thermostatic kit. They use high quality off the self components and happily replace individual components ,say if your cooler core rusts out, instead of making you buy a full kit again. They will cut custom size lines for you, the customer service is great and the kit isn't as expensive as the rest. I have had one of their kits on my heavily tracked FRS for 10k+ track miles and it has never been an issue.
__________________
- #813 2013 Scion FRS Build Thread
- JHerbert Racing Website
Takumi788 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 04:43 PM   #10
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,522
Thanks: 8,911
Thanked 14,166 Times in 6,828 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petah78 View Post
I recently picked up a 2017 BRZ as a daily/track day car to replace my 8th gen SI. My track use consists of 4-5 two hours track sessions a season. I have been reading up on this car quite a bit and it appears that an oil cooler is an ideal upgrade if the car sees track time. However, they are not without problems considering that I live in the North and our harsh winters can cause quite a bit of problems. Problems include oil never getting up to operational temp (-13F ambient is not uncommon), exposure to road salt rotting out the cooler and hardware, potential leaks etc. I also don’t want the oil cooler to create any warranty issues down the road as it still carries a 3 year powertrain warranty. On the contrary, I have also heard of members indicating as that as long as you use a quality synthetic and up the weight to 5W-30, an oil cooler is not an absolute requirement, especially with the relatively limited track use. I am sure there are members in the same situation as me and I wanted to gauge what others have done. In the past, I have never needed an oil cooler on the past cars but they were all Honda B and K series engines which are quite robust.

Thanks.
both B and K motors need oil coolers for long term health. You can run them without, but it comes at the price of significantly higher wear rates, particularly on cams and cylinder sidewalls/rings.

Check out the Jackson Racing oil cooler, which I consider the bare minimum for a tracked car. Quality components with individual replacements available.

GReddy makes a superior oil cooler, albeit at a higher price. Also quality components with individual replacements available.

Thicker oil is often a bandaid, not a solution.
CSG Mike is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
mixxxx (12-12-2019)
Old 12-10-2019, 01:00 AM   #11
prandelia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Drives: 2015 FRS
Location: KY
Posts: 174
Thanks: 1
Thanked 190 Times in 77 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
+1 on Jackson Racing. Plus, it fits perfectly with the OE and TRD intakes.
__________________
'15 FRS - GLTC spec
YouTube channel race vids: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClU...phsppnA/videos

prandelia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 06:18 AM   #12
ZDan
Senior Member
 
ZDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,577
Thanks: 1,373
Thanked 3,883 Times in 2,027 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petah78 View Post
My track use consists of 4-5 two hours track sessions a season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petah78 View Post
My local track offers 2 hours lapping evenings with no run groups. During the 2 hours, you can run as much as you want. I usually attend 4-5 events per summer. However, I would normally only do 20 mins session before pitting and resting myself/car.
You don't need an oil cooler.
Run 5w30 in the when doing track events. Switch back to 0w20 for winter months.
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 06:34 AM   #13
ZDan
Senior Member
 
ZDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,577
Thanks: 1,373
Thanked 3,883 Times in 2,027 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Thicker oil is often a bandaid, not a solution.
However in this case thicker oil than 0w20 is recommended by the manufacturer for this kind of usage...
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post:
CSG Mike (12-10-2019)
Old 12-10-2019, 08:23 AM   #14
Dave-ROR
Site Moderator
 
Dave-ROR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Drives: Stuff
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,317
Thanks: 955
Thanked 5,965 Times in 2,689 Posts
Mentioned: 262 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
both B and K motors need oil coolers for long term health. You can run them without, but it comes at the price of significantly higher wear rates, particularly on cams and cylinder sidewalls/rings.
Bah. We run 300+ degrees oil temp in the b series champ car race after race after race.

Not that I suggest it but I am far more OK running a b series VTEC motor that way than an FA20
__________________
-Dave
Track cars: 2013 Scion FRS, 1998 Acura Integra Type-R, 1993 Honda Civic Hatchback
DD: 2005 Acura TSX
Tow: 2022 F-450
Toys: 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo, 1994 Toyota MR2 Turbo, 1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
Parts: 2015 Subaru BRZ Limited, 2005 Acura TSX
Projects: 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited track car build
FS: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500 LT CCSB 8.1/Allison with 99k miles
Dave-ROR is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave-ROR For This Useful Post:
CSG Mike (12-10-2019)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: FRS/BRZ for HDPE/track days GrandSport Want-To-Buy Requests 2 10-30-2018 07:53 PM
PitBulls AX/HDPE 86 pitbull008 Member's Car Journals 13 05-21-2018 11:00 AM
HDPE tire klear Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 40 02-08-2017 04:43 PM
How many quarts of engine oil for cars with oil coolers toby714 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 8 12-11-2014 07:16 PM
Helmets for AutoX/HDPE drewbot CANADA 16 03-26-2014 08:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.