Used FRS/BRZ vs 03 Toyota MR2

[Cloud]

Some of you might have seen me posting around, I am absolutely in love with the brz and have been lurking this forum for a while. I have done enough research and daily forum viewing to know just about everything on this car, BUT I am a young guy who is also looking to buy his first house. I can't seem to justify buying a car for $16k, as much as I love it, while also looking to buy a house. If I was just looking to get a car, BRZ would be it in a heartbeat.

So with all that being said, I question if I can get a similar driving experience from a 2003 MR2 Spyder that I would get with a BRZ.

Living in an area without a subaru dealership makes it hard to find a brz. I've been pretty set on a 2013 Limited Brz, but the closest mr2 is actually closer than the closest brz.

I'm very interested in the mid-engined design of the mr2 and how it would handle, I haven't test drove an mr2 yet. I have however test driven 2 BRZ's and a new gt86, sadly all were automatic and I was looking to get a manual.

As far as practicality goes the brz is actually more practical. There is basically no storage in the mr2, but like I said I'm a young guy so it's not too much of a big deal.

I'd just like to see what someone who owns a frs/brz thinks of the mr2.

[gishpatrick]

You could get a mr spyder pretty cheap these days. You also have the choice of doing a 3sgte swap or a 2zzge swap for a high revving car. My uncle did a 3sgte swap on a 93 mr2 for roughly 7k (clean body + half of the clip with engine and tranny from japan). It's a zippy fun little car that is very direct when turning.

The 86 on the other hand is a fun car by itself and is a great commuter car too. It gets a lot more interesting if you boost the car.. at the cost of shelling out a lot of money (something I doubt you are willing to do as you're saving for a house).

In the end it all depends on what you want. I can't say whether the MR2 or the 86 platform is better because it all comes down to preference. A MR2 can be a fun project car and is capable of a lot of power if you swap the right motor in whether it be a NA high reving motor or a turbo motor. In terms of smiles/fun per dollar, the MR2 has great returns and you can't really go wrong with it.

[Summerwolf]

The experience will be similar in a couple ways. Both lightweight, and both slow. Stock for both obviously.

[Darth Khan]

I have owned an 2000 MR2 Spyder with TRD body kit and 16 inch new, my son now owns the MR2. The exhaust header pre-cat failed a few years back so I swapped in a 2ZZ. I purchased a wrecked Celica GT for $600, the whole swap cost me about $1000-1200.

For daily driving the main difference in the two cars. (Please note these comments are based on the standard car setup. No lowering, fat wheels or FI’s)

Acceleration:
86: Slightly more responsive. This is down to the D.I. kicking in at a lower rev range and there being more torque in the low range, however it is close.
Mr2: When the VVC kicks in it puts a smile on your face (more so than the DI).

Winner: 86 purely because of better response in lower rev range making it better daily driver, however if you are lead footed you might prefer the MR2.

Cornering/Spirited Driving:
MR2 - Being mid-engine and rear drive is a really fun daily driver on windy roads. Once you get used to the VVC and keeping the revs up few cars can match it, even the 86 will have issues. You do feel the road more and there is more body role on hard cornering but that‘s part of the fun.
86 –Got this car a few months ago. The sports mode and assisted driving stuff does take some of the edge out of daily driving. Being honest having owned the car for only a few months I have not went even close to 10/10 on this car (I very seldom did on the MR2).

Winner: MR2 - Well of course its mid-engine, rear wheel drive and has no gadgetry so it more raw than the 86.

Refinements:
86 - I have read that the 860 overall is more refined that earlier twins, I do not know if this is true, I actually like the interior of the 86 far more than the MR2.
Mr2 – My mr2 is one of the first to come off the production line. You get a fair bit of rattle and odd noises on bumpy roads. (Even when new). Very basic sound system in a low down odd location. You can add after market but it is still in a low down position.

Racing/Tracking:
Never tracked either of them so I can’t rate them. This means my assessment is based on spirited road driving at mostly 8/10, with the very rare 10/10 corner.

Winner: No Clue.

Practicality:

86. Like you mentioned the 86 is far more practical as a daily driver rear seats and an actual boot/trunk that with the seats folded will swallow a surprising amount of stuff. (TARDIS comes to mind).
MR2: Forget practicality, it’s a “for fun” only car, put the hood down, turn up the volume and go for a drive, who cares what if you have a boot/trunk.

Winner: Do you have to ask?

Final Points:
There are a few known issues with the 1ZZ engine in the MR2.

1. Exhaust Header Pre-cat failure (All Years).
2. Disappearing oil and blocked piston oil drain holes (2000-2003).
3. Bearing failure caused by oil starvation on extreme cornering. (Mostly affected race/track cars).

With that in mind I would recommend you only get 2004 or newer that has never been raced. You can check for pre-cat failure by removing the upstream oxygen sensors and shining a torch inside, if you see the honeycomb is breaking down, move on the engine is toast. Also if you do get one remove the pre-cat from the exhaust header, that way you won’t have to worry about it breaking down.

86 – You can read on the know issues for the 86 on this forum. The ones I found were of no real concern so I got the 86.

[chaoskaze]

nonono

unless you are pretty good with a wrench.

Any Mr2 you get will have tons parts to replace, i got 2 friend with the 2nd gen. They don't drive outside the city with it. Try it you may, just don't be suprised by the amount of work and repair you need to do to most of them.

* not saying you can't get a unicorn, but just so you know it's a hard car to work on unless you have a hoist. Mid engine makes it harder to work on.

[Darth Khan]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

nonono

unless you are pretty good with a wrench.

Any Mr2 you get will have tons parts to replace, i got 2 friend with the 2nd gen. They don't drive outside the city with it. Try it you may, just don't be suprised by the amount of work and repair you need to do to most of them.

* not saying you can't get a unicorn, but just so you know it's a hard car to work on unless you have a hoist. Mid engine makes it harder to work on.

Its not as difficult as some people make it out. Like you said there are occasions where its easier to remove the engine than try to fix it in the car but those times are rare and when it is needed you can remove the engine in 4-8 hours depending on your experience.

The issues people have are because they do not have access to an engine lift or follow some misguided instructions from the OEM manual. Believe me I know, I read the instructions to remove the MR2 Spyder engine and nearly had a heart attack. I ignored it and used common sense, it was a lot easier than the recommended approach from Toyota.

However: If you pay other people to work on your cars then the MR2 will cost you more for maintenance so if money is an issue, move on and buy something else.

[Slammillionaire]

Bought a house then bought an frs a few months after. I'm 26 and make less than $50k. Just do it

[Is Always Angry]

Hey there, I have a 2013 BRZ limited and my best friend drives an 03 MR2 Spyder which I've had the chance to drive/ drive with/ ride along several times.

Here's my thoughts:

First, transmissions. The MR2 has a couple of options, one of which is an automated flappy paddle which works well enough but it shows that it's 2003 tech. It's slow, you can't select gears completely freely I believe (it will limit you from lugging the engine or over-revving, I'll have to double check with him). It's also way slower accelerating than the manual much like the 86. He recently manual swapped it and the 5 speed stick is definitely a lot better. It's nice to use, the clutch engages practically on the floorboard (in stark contrast to the 86) and everything is smooth and sharp. The actual gear selection is a little more ambiguous than the 86's but it works well enough, certainly better than other sticks I've driven. It is a sports car, after all. I think there is also a 6 speed option. If you want, I’ll ask him or get you in contact with him about the transmissions, swaps, costs, etc.

Practicality-wise, you nailed it. He's single but dating, I'm engaged. The MR2 simply wouldn't work for me. If you've seen the Miata's trunk and extra storage, pretend it has no trunk. That's what you have to work with. There's a small compartment behind each seat into which you can fit a tortilla if you really squeeze it. It works just fine for him but if you're looking to do something more than a weekend trip the BRZ is your car. I've gone on a week-long 1500 mile camping road trip along the coast with my fiancee and did it with the seats up! There's a whole thread on that here, called junk in the trunk I think. Also you can fit another set of wheels and tires in the BRZ because racecar, whereas my friend has to drop off his wheels with another car and then install them himself. It's just an entire different world of useability.

Handling: The first thing he did when he got his car was take it to autocross and discover snap oversteer. A mid engine car requires different things when driving hard than a FR layout. Every time I drive it he reminds me: brake before the corner, once you start turning commit and do not let up on the gas. I am far more comfortable making violent inputs in my car. Other than the rear end liking to bite if you’re not careful, both of our cars really handle similarly. His is lowered and on Potenzas, I’m stock on majorly worn stock Primacy HPs, and neither has the advantage around a tight. He pulls away on sweepers as I start to understeer. People compare the 86 handling to a go-kart, the same really holds true for the MR-S. Maybe more so… that thing is seriously tiny and seriously light. On his suspension, it’s practically flat to the floor and you can hurl it around like no other. Both cars are an absolute blast.

Powertrain and other thoughts: stock for stock (well, catbacks on both of ours), the power is pretty similar. Again, neither has the advantage really. Driving hard the BRZ doesn’t drop into the torque dip (which, in my opinion, is a bit overblown anyway), but the MR2 is geared a bit longer and it seems to deliver power more smoothly. It definitely has a good top end. He recently redid the head and cams, which gave him a bit of upper-mid bump on the BRZ out of some corners. It’s really down to using the right gear. To get seriously more power out of either car is pretty costly. It depends on what route you go; headers/tune or SC/TC on the BRZ, and FI vs engine swap on the MR2. Again, I’ll be happy to answer any questions (and so will he) about modifying the MR2. We both love to talk cars. If you’re happy with the power level on the BRZ, the MR2 as-is would be a smarter choice for the price if you’re trying to buy a house.

There is one small thing that does bug me about his car. Well, two. The ’03 design is a lot more… soft. Innocent. It has really big sad eyes and a happy little mouth, whereas the BRZ to me is slightly sharper. That’s very subjective, I know. The second is the noise. Evidently Toyota in all its wisdom designed the (catalytic converter…? I forget) to eventually break down, spit carbon into the engine, and break things. Instead of taking that fate, the last guy to own the car put a different exhaust on it. My friend insists it’s because the mid-engine design doesn’t allow for a long system, but the car is SO. LOUD. I really wish it wasn’t because (again subjective) it doesn’t sound all that great.

Dollar for dollar, both are a great deal for smiles.

[Dadhawk]

Never cared for the Spyder, and don't consider it in the same league as the MK1 and MKII MR2s.

Now, if Toyota brought back the MK1 in a restomod kind of thing the FR-S would have stable mate tomorrow.

[Cloud]

Originally Posted by Is Always Angry

Here's my thoughts:

Dollar for dollar, both are a great deal for smiles.

I would be keeping both cars primarily stock, the MR2 I'm looking at has that SMT transmission, which is a bit of a turn off tbh, how much did your friend spend to swap out the transmissions?

I would be changing the headers just because I feel it would be safer to not worry about the cats failing. Other than that I would be pretty much stock. Maybe some coilovers.

Is his car reliable, that was another big concern, being that an 2003 mr2 is now 14 years old I question how reliable it could really be.

Also does he daily drive his MR2?

[Is Always Angry]

Originally Posted by Cloud

I would be keeping both cars primarily stock, the MR2 I'm looking at has that SMT transmission, which is a bit of a turn off tbh, how much did your friend spend to swap out the transmissions?

I would be changing the headers just because I feel it would be safer to not worry about the cats failing. Other than that I would be pretty much stock. Maybe some coilovers.

Is his car reliable, that was another big concern, being that an 2003 mr2 is now 14 years old I question how reliable it could really be.

Also does he daily drive his MR2?

Here's where he got the parts for his swap https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/t...s-smt-mt-swap/
He says about $3300 total in parts (1300) and labor (2000). His exact words are "totally worth it." I don't think he ended up needing all of the kits from MWR, your experience may vary a bit.

Probably a good call on the headers (as someone mentioned, it's the precat that fails... lame)

As far as reliability, he's had it about 3 years now and no major issues. He's a die-hard Toyota guy and I can see why. It's definitely difficult to kill those things. The only problems he's had, as far as I'm aware, have stemmed from major work he chose to do. In other words, he elected to do some work on the head and other major engine components and there were some minor complications associated with that. If you have an 03 and just do the manual swap I see no reason why a 14 year old Toyota wouldn't be running strong.

Yes, he does daily drive it! Even in our gross winters we make it around up here. There was a day last year that we got about 11-14" of snow and that was a bit difficult but otherwise he's always tearing around town having a blast lol

If you've got more questions I'll PM you his number so you can text him!

[WolfpackS2k]

Daily Drive an MR2 Spider? You're crazy. That car makes the BRZ and cars like an S2000 or Miata seem downright practical in comparison. Cargo space is a joke in that car.

Get a BRZ.

[why?]

I was actually looking at MR2's before I bought my BRZ. Couldn't find a clean first gen, and started to look into all the issues and decided it just wasn't worth it for me as I don't have a garage or a lift.

[NAEightySix]

Having owned an 03 MR2 Spyder as my very first car, I can say it's a very fun drivers' car. Doesn't feel THAT much slower even if it was just a 1ZZ. I still prefer the looks of the twins MUCH more, as well as the layout solely because I can get a little sideways if I want without worrying about spinning out, and because of how nice the twins feel in the top end. Regardless, both are fun cars. A built 2ZZ swap + a turbo can get you some pretty nice results. I love both cars regardless, but as previously mentioned in another reply, there's absolutely no storage space in the MR-S. You have a small compartment behind each seat and a very small space in the frunk (you can fit more behind the seats than you can in the frunk lol).

Edit: My MR-S was $7,000 with somewhere around 60k miles, manual transmission, clean title, and no modifications other than some weird note left behind by the lady who owned it before me.