Questions and Discussion on Vortech Supercharging Systems

[charged86]

Originally Posted by swift996

What kind of IATs are you guys seeing at 8.5psi and 12psi?

I bet @Dezoris knows

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

How did it go?

What. A. Living. Hell.

Apparently no one in Phoenix sells spring based clamps... and I had few clamps within reasonable size. We think they fit but its hard to fit things in the small area. We ended up going with injector clamps... It took 5 hours. It took me less time to install my supercharger. Given it was also hot as hell & extremely humid (105F 30-40% humidity) which really didn't help. I never ever want to do that again. I will pull the manifold next time and just buy new gaskets lol. Or buy spring clamps that i know will fit in the first place...

Originally Posted by swift996

What kind of IATs are you guys seeing at 8.5psi and 12psi?

I just checked a pair of logs i happened ot have open (and ambient temp written down).

The first log was on a 3.48 pulley (stock) doing a third gear pull with "average" oil and coolant temps. (Average for being on ethenol blend, as i dont have any logs of being on 3.125 pulley with pump gas). Ambient 103F, E68, Coolant 90C, Oil 100C
Starting Delta: 7F
Peak Delta: 15F
Manifold Pressure @ 7315RPM: 1.6Bar

Now on a 3.125 pulley, similar humidity Ambient 97F, E78, Coolant 90C, Oil 98C:
Starting Delta: 7F
Peak Delta: 21F
Manifold Pressure @ 7317RPM: 1.77Bar

So this is on a 2.46PSi difference at ~7315RPM (highest RPM that was matching, i didn't rev as high on the 3.48 pulley log i was comparing).

[swift996]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

I just checked a pair of logs i happened ot have open (and ambient temp written down).

The first log was on a 3.48 pulley (stock) doing a third gear pull with "average" oil and coolant temps. (Average for being on ethenol blend, as i dont have any logs of being on 3.125 pulley with pump gas). Ambient 103F, E68, Coolant 90C, Oil 100C
Starting Delta: 7F
Peak Delta: 15F
Manifold Pressure @ 7315RPM: 1.6Bar

Now on a 3.125 pulley, similar humidity Ambient 97F, E78, Coolant 90C, Oil 98C:
Starting Delta: 7F
Peak Delta: 21F
Manifold Pressure @ 7317RPM: 1.77Bar

So this is on a 2.46PSi difference at ~7315RPM (highest RPM that was matching, i didn't rev as high on the 3.48 pulley log i was comparing).

Thanks, sorry a follow-up on this. What are the starting and peak deltas quantifying?

[Dezoris]

@nelsmar @swift996 @charged86

I will post this up here. Please note this is critical, there are recovery areas in IAT, Oil and Coolant temps. This is not possible without intercooler and oil cooler setup.

Next test will be Perrin v12 with lower 200F fan activation points.
(Perrin Oil/Cooler and Koyo Rad)

[swift996]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

@[B]nelsmar @swift996 @charged86

Not bad so peak is probably in the 120-140 range. I'm curious how much that will raise with the smaller pulley/more boost? Just trying to get an idea of the temp of compressed air. Not quite apples to apples but no data is out yet on the innovate setup. People of course speculate the charger will become a heat pump but I like to see some data. The innovate is likely going to see more heat soak with it being less thermal efficient and its mounting location. Smaller pulleys are finally available for us guys.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by swift996

Not bad so peak is probably in the 120-140 range. I'm curious how much that will raise with the smaller pulley/more boost? Just trying to get an idea of the temp of compressed air. Not quite apples to apples but no data is out yet on the innovate setup. People of course speculate the charger will become a heat pump but I like to see some data. The innovate is likely going to see more heat soak with it being less thermal efficient and its mounting location. Smaller pulleys are finally available for us guys.

Nameless and FA20 will be the first to know Manifold boost temps.
Non intercooled I suspect that will probably be in the 150-160F range, since there is so much issue on 91 Octane. Worst part with that is there is zero recovery, just heat soaks and sits there.

This is something Innovate should absolutely know and post. @mines13 Adam are you ever going to give hard data on this?

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by swift996

Not bad so peak is probably in the 120-140 range. I'm curious how much that will raise with the smaller pulley/more boost? Just trying to get an idea of the temp of compressed air. Not quite apples to apples but no data is out yet on the innovate setup. People of course speculate the charger will become a heat pump but I like to see some data. The innovate is likely going to see more heat soak with it being less thermal efficient and its mounting location. Smaller pulleys are finally available for us guys.

These two superchargers are mounted differently, compress differently, have different material manifolds, different charge methods, and will not show the same temperature difference. It would be better to find another similar supercharger on another car and compare the charge temperatures. As even our piping alone will radiate heat out before it hits the IAT. Simply doing the math of atmospheric temperature change via compression might be a better comparison for you.

I would suspect that would be quite a heat pump. I would not be comfortable increasing boost without some sort of cooling issue. In a test we recently did (and will be posting about) the innovate vs vortech on cali/az pump fuel is quite a bit different. The Innovate was struggling a lot more. I assume Fa20club will get some test results soon of temperatures. But this really sounds like a better discussion in the innovate thread.

But from personal experience if you are non intercooled I wouldn't personally touch a higher boost pulley without at least E85 or water/meth injection to at least get some cooling benefits. We had a hard enough time on 91 octane in Arizona just tuning the standard pulley. On E85... thats a completely different story.

[448hpsti]

Originally Posted by charged86

cheap vortech mod to get the crackcase hot air and oil out of intake box make sure the inlet that is marked on oil separator (from Lowes) is being fed from the crankcase hose and the arrow is pointing towards the filter (from autozone) don't for get to cap the port on the intake box

I have no issue with the vortech oe setup, still no aos, no issues

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

I have no issue with the vortech oe setup, still no aos, no issues

That heavily depends on the motor. I catch plenty of PCV blowby oil and unspent fuel. But not so much on the breather side. But last thing you want is oil getting blown in from the breather line to the Vortech blower and down into the IC. It's one of those CYA things for longer term if you are driving hard to keep that system efficient.

[448hpsti]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

What. A. Living. Hell.

Apparently no one in Phoenix sells spring based clamps... and I had few clamps within reasonable size. We think they fit but its hard to fit things in the small area. We ended up going with injector clamps... It took 5 hours. It took me less time to install my supercharger. Given it was also hot as hell & extremely humid (105F 30-40% humidity) which really didn't help. I never ever want to do that again. I will pull the manifold next time and just buy new gaskets lol. Or buy spring clamps that i know will fit in the first place...

FYI these are Factory Subaru clamps I recommend, avail at your dealer,. they fit all the leak points under your manifold

[BenArmstrong]

What engine oil does everyone recommend running after installing this kit?

[448hpsti]

unless you changed the motor
I run 0w20 since thats what the motor was designed around

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

unless you changed the motor
I run 0w20 since thats what the motor was designed around

I agree, and have seen very little compelling reason to change yet.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

FYI these are Factory Subaru clamps I recommend, avail at your dealer,. they fit all the leak points under your manifold

Is there a part number for that? Or a size? I took a number of clamps off my engine and none of them fit my hose lol.